Well, I got the efi pms comming up within the next couple of weeks... just wondering if anyone else here is using the system, and were they able to tune it themselves?
Any advice?

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92 Talon Tsi AWD
Somewhere in the 12's!

Hey Alex

Good to see you're getting on board with the PMS. Its a great tuning tool although a little daunting initially. Once you play with it for a few weeks you start to get the hang of it.

The best newcomer advice I can give is to start simple and learn to play with only one of the paramaters at a time (eg. O2s or ignition timing or boost, etc.) Check out the following sites for a little pre-reading on how the tuning works:

http://www.driestone.com/PMS/
http://members.xoom.com/RossSL/pms.htm
http://www.onelist.com/archive/EFIPMSlist/

If you've got any specific questions just let me know and I'll see if I can help. I've had mine for a little while but I haven't played with it recently since my stock clutch couldn't handle the power I was making (since before winter started actually). But now my clutch is replaced so I'll be on to it!

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Cya O!
GiO
If its not popping flames, crank it up!

[This message has been edited by Giovanni Stagno (edited April 26, 2000).]

I also find that it is easier to tune if there is someone in the car with you to watch the PMS.

Thanks guys... those sites were pretty informative...
There are already 3 programs loaded into this PMS as I'm getting it used...
Sounds to me as if our cars were pretty close (Mod-wise) as well. The one big difference is that he was using the 550cc's while I still have the stock ones...
Would you know up front what I should do to compensate for this difference?

Thanks.

You'll have to reload the stock injector dataset from the PMS ROM. The PMS comes with a set of parameters for both stock injectors and 550s right out of the box. The instructions you get will tell you how to do this.

The only problem, however, is that when you reload the stock injector dataset you'll lose the parameters that were used under the 550 setup the guy before you had. If you want you can just take note of all the values in the PMS before you write back the stock setup. Obviously doing this comes with its own set of risks.

I would recommend just starting out from scratch. The 3 initial settings you get with the unit give you a reasonable start anyway.


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Cya O!
GiO
If its not popping flames, crank it up!

Alex,
Just wondering, did you get the MAS and datalogging software with your PMS??? or is it just the PMS unit itself?

I got the PMS with the Large MAF, but without the software... I'll pick up the software once I have a couple extra $$$ lying about.

Sounds like the way to go... I'll erase all 3 programs and start from scratch...

The reason I asked is because depending on your software version on the PMS you may have to send the unit out... and if it's installed and tuned it really sucks cause you lose it all. I had to drive around for a few week without mine to get it upgraded.

I looked into that already and the pms is new enough not to need a chip upgrade to work witht the windows software etc... I had my eye on another PMS but it was like 3 years old... too much of a hastle, so I got this one.. about one year old (Produced in 99)...

Come to think of it, I do have one question about the filter that comes with the upgraded MAF. Roger (from forced Performance) told me that the filter is a little dirty from use. Are these filters comparable to the K&N's in that you can clean them using some solution? Any ideas?

[This message has been edited by Alex Schulz (edited May 05, 2000).]

yeah, the filter is just like a K&N... actually more like a funnel RAM one. To clean it I just use the K&N stuff.

Well, got the PMS today, and raced home to get the thing installed.
Wow! So many settings... so little time...
My car is driving like sh!t on the stock settings at 1000 rpm, but I guess I just need to fool around with it a lot more.
How do you guys adjust fuel? on the WOT menu, or as part of the boost menu?

Actually, are any of you going to be at cayuga this comming Sunday? If you are, maybe we could compare settings.

Thanks,


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92 Talon Tsi AWD
Somewhere in the 12's!

Hehehe... how'd you like tryin to cram that computer back into the mounting spot with the connector attached?!?!?!
For your question, I would leave the WOT at the default setting and play with the boost menu because right when you hit 1psi @ WOT the PMS will go into the Boost menu, and run from there. So whatever you set in the WOT menu will be superimposed by the Boost setting, for example if you set -10% in the WOT open setting and +10% in the boost it will equate to 0% fuel enrichment under boost. If you have any questions just e-mail me at squishy.squashy@home.com.

hehe..
I did exactly what all Mechanics do.... Look at it for 5 minutes.. Have a cigarette.. look some more.. grab a beer... Attempt to force it in... curse alot.. then give it one final shove until it fits.

THEN, I did repeated the whole process to get the actual PMS inbetween the CPU and the firewall.

I've been toying with it alot.. seems as though at 15 pounds of boost, my timing reads around 31 degrees at around 2000 rpm??? then, at WOT it seems to go down to 7-13 degrees... is this right? I'm worried to see that 30 degree mark while slowly driving around...

I think the aim of the game is to make sure your timing continually climbs as your RPMS climb. For example, when I go WOT at 4,000 RPM, the timing drops to about 13 and works its way up to 25 by 7,000+ RPM. If you've got problems (eg. detonation) you'll notice the ECU pull out a chunk of timing as you increase RPMs. When you let off between shifts at 7,000+ RPMs the timing jumps to 35-40 or so before you get on the gas again at which time you start the process again.

I wouldn't worry about the timing at 2,000 RPM. The situation you're seeing is not too different to what's describefd above in that the ECU is adding timing when it sees the engine can readily handle it. Having said that, just make sure that you are not adding massive timing at the anchor points.

BTW, the only change that adjustments to the part throttle timing table has is to get the car to be a little more responsive before going WOT. I've found it a bit of a hit and miss affair. I'm still working on that side of things.


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Cya O!
GiO
If its not popping flames, crank it up!

I just received my PMS this week. Can you guys post your settings so I can compare them to mine to see if I'm heading in the right direction. It still seems to be running weird at part throttle when the blow-off valve is starting to open up. Shouldnt the new MAP sensor fix this problem? On program 1 I've set all the parameters at 0, should the car not run exactly like it was before installing the PMS? It runs rough at idle and my intellitronix A/F gauge is reading 6 bars up (rich) as opposed to no bars reading at idle before the installation of the PMS. Can anybody shed some insight as to why all the problems are arising.

[This message has been edited by Armand Bonner (edited May 13, 2000).]

Same problems that I've been having.
I've adjusted my idle fuel up 22%.. o2 reads 90v at this setting, and it seems to be working better at idle.

As for the rough drivability at under 2000 rpm, The Accel feature (Menu 900, not in the manual) helps to rectify that.. From what I understand, the first accel feature (adjustments of 1-20) will make the fuel more responsive in first gear at low rpms.. The rough idle is due to the larger MAF, and the stock ECU's fuel map not efficient at that point (Or something like that).
Doug at EFI has said that most people use 2 for the first accel feature, and 20 for the second... I'm still experimenting with it since it seems to run better when I have the first accel at 20, and the second at 5... still a little rough though. Just need to experiment some more to find the perfect setting...

Join the PMS group list at www.egroups.com
name: EFIPMSlist

There is a discussion on this very topic...


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92 Talon Tsi AWD
Somewhere in the 12's!

More adjusting... Idle fuel is now at -10%... Works like a charm now! accel snd:2 accel recv:20

My street setting: table boost limit:21 fuel cut:23
Boost menu: 2000rpm:18 4000:19 6000:19 7000:20psi
As for fuel on the WOT menu, I seem to be removing from 2-4% at 2000 and 4000 rpm. I haven't finished it, but I generally remove 2%, floor it, see if the voltage is <80, remove more if it isn't... I think I'm adding 2-4% at 6000 and above rpm on the WOT menu.
Question: How lean can we go here? .76V?

As for timing on the WOT menu, 2000rpm +4
4000 +5, 6000 +6, 7000 +7.

I havent really looked at timing too much yet.. Am I right in assuming that we shouldn't go above 25 degrees of timing on pump 93 octane?
If that is the case, should I be aiming to have 22 degrees advanced at 2000 rpm, 23 degrees at 4000, 24 degrees at 6000 and 25 degrees at 7000?

I think that's about it so far...


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92 Talon Tsi AWD
Somewhere in the 12's!

Alex

Timing of about 25-27 at the top of the RPM range is what appears to be about as good as you should expect on 93 octane gas.

As for your boost setup, I would think that you should be raising the boost at the lower RPM anchor points as opposed to the higher RPM points (if you want to play safe at least). Remember, as RPMs climb (if everything is running to plan) timing should climb. The more timing advance under bost the closer the engine is to its performance threshold. In the interests of safety, you don't want to put the engine under increasing boost pressure when timing is most advanced. If you've gone too far in this area you would readily pick it up with the datalogging software as you see timing being sliced as knock is detected.

I'm assuming that your suggested O2s are for race gas. 0.76-0.8 volts is the 116+ fuel target voltage. On 93 octane gas if you're going for less than 0.86 volts you're running it lean.


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Cya O!
GiO
If its not popping flames, crank it up!

Alex, seems to me your timing is pretty aggressive for pump gas!!! My car will be much, much faster at the track (on pump gas) if I keep the boost under 17psi, keep the A/F in the 0.88v-0.90v range and play it really conservative with timing.

I have TMO 3 on my car and it's amazing how quickly the ECU will pull timing on pump gas. I have to keep my settings really conservative on pump. And this is with a huge FMIC! Weird, hey?

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Francois Villeneuve
Le Talon
Working on it...

Just a side note here in regards to o2 voltages. With a proper setup, you can run as lean as .85 on pump gas. With racing fuel (110 or higher) you can run from .78 - .72. This info is right from the big man himself, David Buschur. We can argue all day and night about this, but I would guess that Dave knows alittle bit more about this than most of us. He's done his homework and proved himself many times over by building cars that aren't one pass wonders.

[This message has been edited by Kon Pappas (edited May 17, 2000).]

He also attributed the high reliability of the RWD engine to the fact that he was running it at 0.86v on race fuel.

Anyway, I was mostly saying that bumping the timing on pump gas didn't do wonders for my car. Race fuel is a different story.