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Help with logs (way too much knock) #174442
June 08, 2004 04:52 pm UTC
June 08, 2004 04:52 pm UTC
Joined: Nov 2002
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scarboro raised but now oshawa...
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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I'll start out with my mods, TD05h w/custom compressor wheel (comparable in size to a 16g), 1G mas(screw backed out , no HC), ported 2G ex mani, 3" downpipe and cat, 2.5" back from cat, Kinetic fmic, walbro 255lp, hks s-afr, mbc, 450's (for now), turbosmart BOV. That all I can think of at the moment. Before the meet I zero'd out the s-afr, lowered the boost to about 12-13psi and I also put in $20 of sunoco 94(always use 94) to try to get rid of the knock. Heres a log of a 2nd and 3rd gear pull, I ran out of room in the top of 3rd so I couldn't run it to redline (not sure if i wanted to with the knock counts I was getting).

RPM - Knock - Timing - O2 - P/W - TPS

4200 - 43 - 0 - .94v - 16.667 - 100
4500 - 42 - 0 - .94v - 17.179 - 100
4600 - 41 - 0 - .94v - 16.154 - 100
4750 - 41 - 1 - .94v - 15.897 - 100
4937 - 41 - 2 - .92v - 15.385 - 100
5125 - 40 - 4 - .92v - 14.615 - 100
5375 - 39 - 7 - .92v - 13.590 - 100
5500 - 39 - 10 - .92v - 13.333 - 100
5687 - 40 - 10 - .92v - 12.821 - 100
5750 - 39 - 11 - .92v - 12.308 - 100
5906 - 39 - 11 - .92v - 12.308 - 100
6031 - 38 - 10 - .92v - 12.051 - 100
6187 - 38 - 11 - .92v - 11.026 - 100
6312 - 43 - 10 - .92v - 10.769 - 100
SHIFT
4343 - 28 - 4 - .94v - 17.179 - 100
4468 - 28 - 3 - .94v - 17.949 - 100
4687 - 27 - 6 - .92v - 15.897 - 100
4750 - 26 - 7 - .92v - 15.641 - 100
4937 - 28 - 9 - .92v - 15.128 - 100
5125 - 31 - 9 - .92v - 14.359 - 100
5281 - 43 - 8 - .92v - 13.590 - 100
5312 - 43 - 8 - .92v - 13.333 - 100
5406 - 43 - 10 - .92v - 13.077 - 100
5562 - 43 - 10 - .92v - 12.821 - 100
5656 - 42 - 10 - .92v - 12.821 - 100
5718 - 42 - 11 - .90v - 12.564 - 100
5781 - 41 - 11 - .90v - 12.564 - 100
LET OFF

Any help, advice, or insight will be much appreciated. Thanks


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174443
June 09, 2004 03:45 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 03:45 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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cry HELP ME, PLEASE cry


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Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174444
June 09, 2004 04:07 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 04:07 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Strange...
Looks like you have tons of fuel and no timing. Why is it knocking so bad?!

Maybe your knock sensor is busted.

Or, could it be phantom knock? Do you get any ticking under the hood (lifters / exhaust leaks etc..).

Could it have something to do with the hacked MAFS?


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174445
June 09, 2004 04:32 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 04:32 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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As far as my lifters go, they're not ticking all that bad. They tick in the winter when cold, but it goes away and its not even noticable this time of year. I don't think it has anything to do with my MAF. My old set-up was with the same MAF and I had absolutly no knock on a third gear pull. I was thinking that I was over-running my fpr, so just this week-end I picked up an aeromotive afpr, it should be on this week-end. I hope that helps.


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174446
June 09, 2004 06:08 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 06:08 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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Would a bad knock sensor act like that and give me false readings? The knock sensor is at least 2 years old, if not more. Come on guys.


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174447
June 09, 2004 06:19 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 06:19 pm UTC
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Cambridge, ON
Tommy Priest Offline
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There was word on here once before I remember reading that shot front lower control arm bushings could cause phantom knock. The arms have some play and tap which the knock sensor picks up.

My bushings are bad and I have knock. I'm fixing them shortly so I'll post if it does clear up the knock.


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Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174448
June 09, 2004 08:58 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 08:58 pm UTC
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Brampton, On
Mark PPG Scheitzbach Offline

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That IPW is a bit on the low side up high for me. I know the boost is low but still. You see at the lower RPMs how you have "less" knock and the IPW is higher, then as RPM's climb the IPW goes lower, and the knock goes up. I would think you are still lean (even though your 02 is high)

I would say, leave the boost low (~12psi) and richen up the AFR and see if it gest better or worse.

I would also check and reset the base timing as I've seen that mess with knock and timing like a MOFO smile (actually, I would do this one first!)

ppg


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Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174449
June 09, 2004 09:12 pm UTC
June 09, 2004 09:12 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Quote
Originally posted by Mark PPG Scheitzbach:
That IPW is a bit on the low side up high for me.
According to this:
http://www.taboospeedshop.com/IPW2IDC.htm

12ms IPW @ 6000 RPM = 60% Injector Duty Cycle

Please correct me if I'm wrong because I need to understand this as well, but isn't that an acceptable IDC?

//EDIT
Ok now I get it. He's not over working his injectors - to the contrary, he is not working his injectors enough!

I was stuck on the fact that a really high IPW is bad, not realizing that a low one is just as bad if not worse shuffle

Sorry for the confusion... Carry on tongue


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174450
June 10, 2004 03:21 pm UTC
June 10, 2004 03:21 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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Thanks guys. I should have on my aeromotive afpr this saturday, so I'll do some more tuning after I check my base timing (reads about 9-11 degrees on the logger). What should I set my base fuel pressure to? Thanks again guys


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174451
June 10, 2004 03:59 pm UTC
June 10, 2004 03:59 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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I just thought I'd let you guys know what my fuel trims are. low = 91%, mid = 99%, and high = 81%. Now what Mark said makes sence, I'm just wondering why my high fuel trims indicate that I'm running rich, yet as the rpm's raise my injector p/w goes down. Hmm


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174452
June 10, 2004 10:02 pm UTC
June 10, 2004 10:02 pm UTC
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Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird Offline

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It's totally possible to be running too rich at idle/cruise and too lean at WOT. (Especially if you've got an SAFC/AFR).

As RPM increases, the amount of time the injector can possibly be open decreases.

A proper IPW line should look like a curve (at WOT). Starting out lower, raising, then dropping again.


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Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174453
June 11, 2004 02:36 pm UTC
June 11, 2004 02:36 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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Thnaks alot to all you guys that replied. I'll do some more tuning this weekend and let you guys know the results.


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174454
June 11, 2004 02:37 pm UTC
June 11, 2004 02:37 pm UTC
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KEVIN KIRELUK Offline OP
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Thnaks alot to all you guys that replied. I'll do some more tuning this weekend and let you guys know the results.


TPG+Meth
You can't tune out mechanical problems!!!
Re: Help with logs (way too much knock) #174455
June 18, 2004 05:02 am UTC
June 18, 2004 05:02 am UTC
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,046
Chilliwack,BC
John Hartman Offline
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How long have you been running this current config?

I ask because you are really rich right now. I ran like that for a while, because it was fastest like that, with my setup at that time.

But guess what? I started knocking, a little at first, but then it got real bad. Turns out running rich for a long time will carbon up the combustion chambers badly, and, at least in my case, the hot spots from the carbon deposits cause alot of knock.

I know its real combustion knock as when I ran race gas it went away completely. If it was a loose bolt or lifters etc, it would still knock no matter what the gas.

I've cleaned the hell out of the combustion chambers as best I can, and I have been running it alot leaner lately, .88 is the richest and about .86 average. It has been getting better lately too, but I am going to use water injection to really clean the chambers and control detonation even better. This should keep the chambers clean forever, and allow much leaner mixtures and more boost. Its a win/win/win.

Might not be your problem at all, but if I can help, good. smile


91 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd
91 Eagle 2000 GTX AWD 5spd

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