So I have narrowed down the choices, but was wondering if anyone had tried any of these tires and how they liked them and how long they lasted:

1) BFG G-Force T/A either KD or KDW compound
2) Toyo Proxes T1-S
3) Nitto NT-555 Exterme
4) Other????

I used to have Toyo T1+ on my car which I loved , but they don't make those anymore. Last year I tried the Yokohama A520 which I thought sucked for grip and I went through a set of them in 5 months!

Help please !

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Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

Reza,

I haven't tried them myself, but I've heard *really* good things about the Kumho ECSTA tires (currently called the Kumho ECSTA Supra 712's I think), so I these will be my next set of tires (especially since they are very attractively priced ) You might want to look into those as well.

I have used the Toyo FZ4's which were a great tire for what they are, but I want something with more grip next time.

Jeff Mitchell

Jeff,

I will look into the Kumhos. And the T1+ is a world better than the FZ4.... I loved tose tires so much. Scary grip, stiff sidewall, great steering response and looked nice too !

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Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

Yeah, you're worlds ahead of the Kumho or Toyo low-end tires, Reza. Especially if you can afford a Bimmer. (:

I'd help, but my research has been done keeping cost-effectiveness in mind. Aside from that, I've beem told that the G-Forces are nice, but wear faster than indicated and don't have as much 'extreme' grip as the top-end Yoko or Toyos. I'd think that a tire I'd try in your position would be the Bridgestone S-02 Pole Position, Michelin Pilot Sport, or Dunlop SP9000. If you want to try a 'cheap' summer tire, try getting a set of Bridgestone RE71's (and 1 or two extra) from the Tire Rack, or some Dunlop SP8000's.

Marta told me about the Kumho 712's, Jeff, since I was really looking at these since they were the cheapest CDN tire I could find in a 245 size. She said that they're really noisy, wear fast, and don't grip very well. They're probably in the same league as the FZ4's. I'll probably go for some Pirelli 7000SS's, or try some RE71's from the US if I can't get cheaper pricing.

Notice I said the FZ4's are a great tire for what they are. They have OK grip, last a long time, awesome in the rain, but not an all out performance tire for sure. Basically I got them because I didn't want to be replacing them after a few seasons like Reza mentioned he had to with the Yok's.

It's disappointing to hear that the Kumho's aren't all they're cracked up to be. I guess at that price I shouldn't be suprised.

Reza, how long did the T1+'s last for you? And are you sure you can't find them anymore? If they've just gone out of production then some distributors might still have them.

Jeff Mitchell

I know. 'For what they are' is usually the criteria I use for buying anything. (: You normally get that from performance tires when you start asking for all-weather traction from them as well. Even the P7000SS's have been maligned by some for not handling as well as they should.

I think that when you get beyond the 'H' rated arena, you're more tailoring the tire to your car, preferences and bank account, rather than just looking for one that works.

I run on the BFG G-Force KD, they are amazingly sticky. My previous tire was Yokohama AVS S1 and the BFG blows them out of the water. I highly recommend these pneus!!!

I'll be getting a set of Potenza RE730's in a couple weeks.. Seem to be a good bang for the buck, and heard great reviews.

I can say from experience that sp8000's are a great tire, I'd buy again (but I'd buy w10, they look nicer.. same tire, just a different tread pattern. The tread pattern on the sp8000 is very square, the w10 is curvier.. probably better in the dry by design, not as good in the wet (no straight equatorial grooves), shouldnt be a problem, you have awd :P).

Again, from experience: the sp9000 is a fantastic tire, though quite expensive Very very sticky, even with 450-500hp, the were really predictable in the rain.. less spin than I expected.. They corner very, very well. Another nice benefit is they have a lip to protect your rims..

Still, gonna buy the potenza re730's

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Jay Proulx
'98 TSi AWD
need.. more.. boost!

I used the Kumhos for about 4 months last year before I switched to the winters. Compared to the old RS-A's I had(which everyone knows suck) they were amazing. I'm actually hard pressed to lock them up in rain. They seemed to be wearing alright when I took them off. For that price point (which includes Falken and Nitto), they are probably the best.

Hey Jay, I was also planning on getting a set of RE730s but they're around $230 a tire installed, which is more than I want to spend. Just curious if you've seen them any cheaper? Like Jay said, based on the reviews I've read they're a great all-around summer tire; good in the rain and decent treadwear to boot. I really want 'em...

nope, $230 sounds about right

Expect to pay near $1k for good tires.. My friend is on Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's, and they cost him about 900 and something shipped..

After this set, I'm going to try a few more tires before I settle on something..

Wish I could settle on Michelin Pilot Sports

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Jay Proulx
'98 TSi AWD
need.. more.. boost!

My vote is for the Michelin Pilot Sports. I have them on my car and they are amazing tires, just don't use them in the snow!

Well, none lasted more than a full season ( spring, summer and a little all driving). I have tried Toyo T1,T1+ and A520. All lasted the same amount, wore evenly and needed to be replaced the following spring....

I am starting to lean toward G-Force or Nitto as I just don't think the T1S is as good a tire as the T1+

Pat, where did you get the G-Force tires and if you don't mind me asking, how much?

And Troy, Just because I bought a 320i does not mean I am made of money. Check into their prices, they are not as expensive as they seem. I just don't want to have compromise on the tire choice. what good is a really fast car with crappy tires ????

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Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

I have used Dunlop SP8000 and toyo FZ24s...the grip with the toyos is no match for the dunlops. But the Dunlops wore away really quickly. I have driven my friends cause with S-02 Pole Positions and they are amazing...I would recommend those. If I were to buy summer tires, i would just get the Yokohama A032 R

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laux3640@mach1.wlu.ca
92 Talon TSI AWD less
Currently saving up for another one

The KUHMO's are real good tires. herd alot of good things from friends in the states. I know couple guys using them here and they like em alot.For 80 bux U.S each for a 225 50 16 you cant go worng.

But god forbid you guys buy a Korean product.

[This message has been edited by Thomas Toth (edited March 21, 2001).]

God forbid, Tommy. (:

Oh, it's just a 320i. (: But people normally don't buy BMW until they almost fall into the 'made of money' category. As for the tires, I ran mine on $85CDN ea. Dean Quasars for the past 3 years and drove it easy since that was all I could afford. But I do buy the best tires that I can because you're right. You need good tires. Have you decided where/how you're going to buy them between here and the US? Tires are way cheaper down there to either just get them, or get a type that is out of your price range up here. I also don't think you mentioned which size you were going for...

Heh. Cars, lawyer, house, etc... Maybe you'd better stick with the $80 tires too. (:

As for recommendations, it's hard with tires because every car and driver are a different combination.

Looked at the Potenza RE730's at Discount Tire in SoCal a couple weeks ago - a real cool looking tire. Cool tread pattern (it's important to me!), excellent reviews, reasonable price (relatively speaking, of course!), (supposed) good treadwear, and available in the right size (235/45-17).... and I've found my tire of choice. I tried buying them last year, but they were only available in the U.S. at the time - I'm glad I limped through the season on the old RS-A's.

Now if only I can find wheels.... Superior Tire in Ontario tells me that the Konig Villains have been discontinued. Damn, and I was all set to purchase a set of 17x8's. Does anyone know where I can pick up a set of Villains? Just my luck - search all winter for just the right wheel and.... what, it's been discontinued?!?

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Todd Hynes
1997 Talon TSi AWD

There is a set of Villains on the Parts Trader right now for a pretty good price.

I don't remember if they're 8" though (probably not).

Jeff Mitchell

I run Hercules Ultra Plus IV on my car. They are a quite tire and have very good grip. They last good too. my tires have been on the car since october and still have almost full tread and i drive hard. Alot of my friends have used them on there cars and like them alot. I would also recomend Dunlop SP Sport W-10. it is a good tire but wears faster (8 months of use and there done) but grip is great.

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Brian Micks
1990 Eagle Talon TSI AWD

Jeff, I checked out the Konig Villains you mentioned. They are 17x8 but they're WHITE! (hmmmm.... a small detail the guy left off the ad) Now, that wouldn't look too good on a black 2g, would it? Yuck. Thanks for the tip though - I appreciate it.

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Todd Hynes
1997 Talon TSi AWD

I did some price checks:

G-Force KD 215/45-17 $325/tire
Toyo T1-S $325/tire


Yikes....

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Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

I almost bought the Konig Villains until he sent me a pic of them on the car....WHITE

------------------
91 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
My Attempt at a website

White can look good on some cars...

Reza, OUCH. I thought that $240ea or so for 245 16" tires was bad. Have you thought about trying to grab a set from the States?

I installed BFGoodrich g-Force KDWS (all-season) on my 17x8 Momo Arrows last week. They are 235-45-17 W rated. So far I like them very much. Paid $1012 at Steelcase tire-n-mag in Markham. They quoted me $220 per tire.

Thanks for passing out on the Konig deal guys
Theses rims will look SWEET on my hunter green 1G

Like Troy says, they can look good even if they're white. Look at this and imagine them in white... NOT BAD!


I scored an AMAZING deal on these. I just hope the Nitto 450's are up to snuff!
I'll let you guys know how they look on my car. I'll try to take a picture soon, I'm picking them up this afternoon

------------------
93 Talon Tsi FWD
13.6@103.5 mph (highest 105.5MPH)
"My way is the highway"

Thanks for posting the pic - finally, a decent picture of Konig Villains! Yummm... they do look good.

Hope the wheels and tires work out, Alex. To each his own, I 'spose. Enjoy!

------------------
Todd Hynes
1997 Talon TSi AWD

I could have told you the Villains are a nice looking wheel, Todd. (:

Argh... I'm in the same boat as Reza, only not as high up on the tire scale. I was chatting with the Tire Rack yesterday, and the guy told me the SP8000's were nowhere near the RE730's (they don't have the RE71's anymore either, damn.). Also, local tire prices seem to be dropping a little.

....and I would have believed you, of course.
Just nice to see a pic, that's all.

Since I was quoted about what I thought of the Kumhos, I will qualify that for the money ($620 the set, installed, for the 225/50R16 size), I am not completely displeased. But I am disappointed as they are a step down from what I had before and I was hoping they'd be about equivalent. They are *not* awesome in the rain. They schriek cornering at over 50-60 kph. The compound seems a bit hard, so I anticipate I will at least get 1.5 summers out of them... They do have a sexy unidirectional tread, and they are at least competent tires. You want better, you spend more... You want inferior, you spend the same.

That said, I bought the Eclipse wearing 215/50R16 BFG G-Force KDW's, and but unfortunately I only got to use them for the 1200 mile drive home, and then another 600 miles before they were total slicks. That added up a total of 19K miles (with what the prev. owner put on them), or about 31K kms before they were to the wear bars. But they handled and gripped absolutely incredibly, right to the end. Then again, that car's suspension is upgraded, so my opinion might not be able to differenciate which handling characteristics are thanks to the tires and which are thanks to the suspension.

I loved the Firestone Firehawk SZ50's I had on the Talon before the Kumhos, but I only got 19K kms out of them. I understand they made a new version of the SZ50 that's supposed to have a longer treadlife. They might be slightly pricey, but after the big scandal at Firestone, their tires might have to dip in price to lure back customers and rebuild confidence... They really were awesome tires.

I understand that Toyo also came out with a new T1-S version of the T1, supposedly with better treadlife too. I bought used Toyo T1's for the Eclipse, so I won't really know how fast they wear. I can't find anything at all to complain about with them, since I got them for a great price.

I don't know if that helped any, but I will say that all of the above are light years better than the no-name H-rated tires that both my Talons came wearing.

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Marta
90 Eclipse GSX (dreaming of summer)
92 Talon TSi AWD (doing winter duty)
http://i.am/dsmgrrrl

Of course you were quoted, oh DSM Goddess of All... (:

I am vexed...... My frined with a 92 3ooZXTT got a set of 16" 45 profile T1S tires (225 front 245 rear) installed and balanced and aligned for $1100 including tax and the same place is quoting me $350/tire not including anything for 215/45 17" T1S tires!!!!!!


WTF

From my research , I think I am gonna go with Bridgestone Potenza RE730s. The T1-S, G-Force KD and Poleposition S-02 are all too expensive for me ($320-$350).

And the RE730s are supposed to be as good as the G-Force KDW BUT with much superior wet traction, lower noise and better wear.

------------------
Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

[This message has been edited by Reza Dowlatshahi (edited March 28, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Reza Dowlatshahi (edited March 28, 2001).]

BTW, Anyone know where in Ontario preferrably Ottawa, I can buy NITTO tires????

I like to find out how much the NT555 is

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Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

Hmmmph - Reza if you find the answer to that one let me know! NOBODY in Canada carries the Nitto line-up to the best of my knowledge so I'm going to Discount Tire Direct ship them to near the border and pick them up myself. What a hassle! But it's better than having UPS bend me over a barrel I guess...
BTW, I'm picking up the N450's myself

I can't WAIT to get rid of those damn RS-A's... did you know they put those on Neon's now? Yuck!

------------------
Tom Gilmore
'97 TSi AWD - "As Black As Night"

The RS-A's are really more of a 'touring' tire. I've had some shops say that that's all you really need for a car like the Talon. ):

When are you planning on buying, Reza? When I called around a few months ago I think I recall one place that could get me Nitto's, but I forget the name. I'm going to be checking again shortly.

As for the price difference, a lot of places will try to just milk you for the extra money for the 17"+ sizes. They know they have you over a barrel.

I was talking to my friend Colin, (He owns Wheels Direct here in T.O.), and he was telling me that Toyo owns Nitto. Toyo decided that Nitto would put there R+D $ into import drag racing, hence the Nitto 555R. Since the import scene is growing so fast, Nitto is doing really well. Big brother Toyo is a little jealous of it's little brother now. So Toyo will not allow Nitto to be distributed to Canada. I know it doesn't make sense to us, but somehow it does to them.

This being said, Colin can get Nitto tires through his brother who runs a huge wheel and tire shop in Fla. But, you will pay a lot for them.

BTW, Colin likes the Toyo T1-S and the Bridgestone S-02, and says the Kumho 712 is good bang for the buck.

------------------
Steve Alexander
90 Laser RS Turbo
91 Talon TSi AWD

Out of the blue commentary...

But I love my Dunlop SP9000's. They were NOT cheap... but try and break them loose in the rain, and they just stick.

In the dry, very nice as well. Have torn at them on the track at Mosport, and they did very nicely.

No complaints... but they were in the "$1200 for the set of 4" range.

Hey... (my favourite expression)... you get what you pay for.

------------------
Andrew Bienhaus
1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD - Shhhhh... The Mongoose is Hibernating...

Hey Tom, you wanna transport my wheels and tires across the border too? Nah, don't bother, I'll just drive 1500kms (plus an 8 hr ferry ride) to the nearest border crossing and do it myself. Geez, must be nice. Good luck.

[This message has been edited by Todd Hynes (edited March 29, 2001).]

Well, considering that it is still snowing every other day in Ottawa, I can wait a week or more, but I gotta get something soon and IF Nitto does not sell in Canada, they are out of the question.



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Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

Todd, I know how you feel.

Yeah, the SP9000's are a pretty ultimate tire. $281 in my size down here.

I've been getting lots of prices down here for mine. Everything from $160ea for BFG CompTA VR4's to $345ea for Michelin Pilot Sports. I'm wondering if prices aren't any cheaper in Toronto, as a lot of extra environmental fees get added on down here. Anyone care to check? I still have to direct-compare them to US places.

I'm leaning towards a set of Falken GRB's. Z-rated, $205ea locally, good treadwear rating as opposed to the Dunlop SP8000 at the same price. (Goodyear just bought Dunlop?)

Troy,

1010 tire is selling Toyo Proxes T1S in 215-45/17 for $260.00 Canandan dollars a piece. Than is still $75cheaper per tire than I can find in Ottawa. And they charge only GST since they are out of province (BC). As well the shipping charge is pretyt good.

I am pretty sure I will get the T1S from them.

------------------
Reza
97 F2 TSi AWD
FRC FED

I'm going to do my comparisons today. Some local prices were pretty good. It's too bad that we don't have open access to other 'cheap' brand performance tires like the Cooper ZHP-01. The ones here in Canada are no-name OEMs from them, that don't include the performance versions.

I still haven't heard back from my US people, but buying from the US is still attractive in that some higher-priced tires (that are unaffordable to us up here) suddenly become affordable. Or cheaper ones are better off, like the Dunlop SP8000 costing $205ea here, but only $90US from them...

Todd buddy, I have no sympathy for you and your 16G smuggling ways

Speaking of price comparisons, May better hurry up and get here. At the rate our freakin' dollar is going, those tires are costing more and more every day!! Damn exchange rate - it's heading towads $1.60 ughhh...

Yep Tom, I know what you're going through. That exchange rate is really f---ing things up. Of course, with wheels and tires being so darned expensive, it doesn't take much to have a large impact. Hopefully things will change a little in the next couple of weeks - not likely though.

As for my smuggling operations.... of course, all experience gained is readily available to all members of the Club. So, you see, I'm doing this for you guys!

Tip #1: When airport security sees the turbocharger on the x-ray, and suspiciously asks "That's some kind of machine, you can't take a machine on an airplane, sir... can you open your bag, sir? Holy sh--, whattcha got there, son?!?", don't answer, "It's a Big 16G". They'll ask more questions.

Hey Reza,

If you haven't got the tires yet, I just picked up a set of 215-50/17 Toyo T1-S's from
Talon tire in Montreal. They were $261 installed!

http://wwww.talontire.com

First impressions of them are good, they are incredibly smooth at speed, make very little
noise and seem to have pretty good grip. I haven't had a change yet to compare them to
the R1's but thats a little bit like comparing apples and oranges.

Allan
97 TSi AWD

I'll have to check them out. Were their prices much better than those in Ontario or whatnot? What made you buy from them?

I just got clearance from my friend with the semi-truck. He can rendezvous with a Tire Rack, etc. shipment and bring it across, no problem... (:

I bought from Talon because of the name, of course

But seriously, they are a sponsor of our local autocross and give out contingency
money for those who run on tires bought from them. The prices also seem to be much better
than what I can find in Ottawa.

So between the price, the lack of having to pay Ontario PST, and my contingency money
from winning the series last summer it was pretty much a no brainer to buy from them.

Allan
97 TSi AWD