I didn't know a catcon could fail suddenly...
Wasn't the car feeling much before this episode? And no missfires?

Good luck, but I don't think it's your cat either.

I ordered my apexi anyway from Ziggy.Not like don't need it.

All I know is car died. It has been displaying symptoms a clogged cat and the dsmlink only shows codes for the cat and 02 and the number 2 misfire.

No other codes. All other things look good on the scanner.

Your ECU has no direct way of knowing if your cat has failed or clogged. It doesn't have a little camera in there looking at things.

It compares the signal from the front and rear O2 sensors, and based on that decides if your cat is working efficiently or not. If one of those sensors was failing or miswired or something, then it is very possible that a cat would be fine, but you still trip that code. Hence the reason I said that you should log the front and rear O2 sensors.

Anyway, you are replacing the exhaust so we'll find out soon enough. Hopefully you don't find your 3065 exhaust wheel jammed in the cat.

The rear o2 does have some indication of the cat that is the sensor that throws the code for cat efficiency.
But my front o2 is showing the code also.

As you said guess see how the car runs when swap the exhaust or take the cat off as not waiting two weeks to drive my car so be doing the cat delete in the meantime next few days as soon as get my bumper back on my car.

Tried to unbolt the cat but its not easy with no overhead hoist. Buddy is coming with grinder just cut it up and then go to muffler shop and get a test pipe welded in. Hoping to get that done today still.

Not likely the cat they dont fail like that. Remove your o2 sensor(s) it will relieve back pressure and car should now idle if cat is clogged.

I tried to get the bolts off downpipe at cat no luck.We took cutter and cut on downpipe but can't get top off it was too much trouble on the ground.

We notched a small breather hole in the downpipe.
The car fired up instantly and idled perfect.
We drove car to muffler shop and it drove much much better but still had no power at all.Again we put like a one inch by two inch slice in the downpipe.
The muffler shop was closed at 4 and the other ones were also.So guess take it monday I have my bumper to trim and guages to install lots to keep my busy.
The cat is failed guaranteed.Did it fail in 5 minutes not sure.It could have failed fast as remember I had the car running hot with my new dud mits therm that kept sticking open.
The car stays nice and cool now with another working oem therm and my dual fans are programmed to come on anytime car runs.
I have no problems with water temp,oil pressure,anything else just car is still slow as a slug the cat IS PLUGGED no other check engine codes show up.
I still bet the farm cut cat right out the car will be running like it should.

Oh took pic of the new intercooler before put bumper back on.gives better idea of its true size..
Enjoy..Also put in new mags and my 235/45/17s firestone fuzions but take a pic of the whole car when wax it up and put on nose.

And those are temp brackets the good ones are not on the intercooler yet and yes it not level and not even yet.

Will make it look right don't worry guys.

And had another experience with clogged cat in buddies sts rear mount turbo camaro.

The car was a super dud and he just had rebuilt motor like me. It would barely idle .It had zero power when you stepped on it,it felt like a 2 cyinder.It was very very slow to rev just pooched.
He put in a high flo cat and gained like 400 hp!!

Night and day.CATS ARE THE DEVIL!! EVIL EVIL CATS!!

Too bad no muffler shop open tommorrow.Wish I had a torch!!!

More tales of backasswards hacking?

I don't understand it. Why woulden't you have your exhaust made an tailored and on before installing your 2.4 motor? The stock exhaust alone would be an INSANE restriction on the bigger motor.

I woulden't have messed around with that exhaust at all, I would have just unbolted the downpipe off the turbo and took the exhaust right off.

Good luck and happy spending as usual.

Umm what are you talking about Nathan.The stock exhaust is going to be restrictive to a big turbo but off boost it would be fine. And hardly been hitting any boost yet.

I planned on buying a better exhaust right after the car was running.Its been over a year in the building and apexi gt stuff is not cheap. I don't have unlimited funds or I would be driving a new vette not a talon and some older cars.

Cars are my hobby but not rich.Just older and have a good job so can afford to play around with this stuff a bit.

The new apexi gt stuff is not going to show for a week or so. I want to drive the car sooner.
We just made a small hole in the pipe to see if it helped .It seems to have. Now will ditch the cat its cheap to put in a test pipe.

Tommorrow will find someone with a sawzall or buy a cheap one and cut the downpipe before the cat.
Then can get the pipe welded on monday if car runs right.

Allen, what a coincindence that we had a simliar problem. My resonator that I had put on in place of the cat and the muffler were plugged. I had the Res cut out and a dynomax Ultraflow muffler installed and now it pulls like a bitach.

I would not have believed just how bad a cat that was plugged could make a car run but had first hand experience in that guys v8 camaro.

A diesel rabbit if you remember those would have beat his camaro or my 97 right now.Its that slow.

It was a bit faster the other day but still didn't want to rev very good and was slow.
Yet there is no other reason for it to be.
It has new fuel pump,new injectors, new fuel filter,it has new plugs, low mileage coilpack,etc.No other codes expect the cat code and that misfire code for number two.


There is really nothing else it could be.

Didn't know resonators could clog up that bad.

I would likely have run a high flo cat but we have no emissions laws here yet.

Another reason waited on the exhaust was originally going to get just n1 stuff but since decided to keep my 97 for a long long time figured might as well get the gt line.

I don't drive the car in winter months it will be put away from end oct to near end march.

Kind of a funny story.Buddy was in car playing with this boost gauge that picked up for my 91 and we were testing it in the 97 since my autometer pod and gauges are not installed yet.

He was saing I was hitting like 14 psi at idle and I said dont' think so. They figured out he was reading the vacuum side thinking it was boost!
The gauge did say boost on it near the in hg stuff so it was easy to see why he made the mistake.

The vacuum does also seem to be reading weird another clogged cat symptom.

I would expect 14in hg or so with my crower cams.

Just grab a little 4.5" angle grinder from princess auto. Very usefull tools to have anyways, and you could saw a car in half with one of those things.

Btw how did the stock exhaust fit that turbo?

The FP3065 has a custom housing.They sell a 3 inch and 3 inch recirced and 2.5. The 2.5 has still put out big power and it was a cheaper and it bolts to a stock downpipe.

I would think the stock exhaust would take away and easy 50 hp on a big turbo like mine.

But remember breaking in the engine and new clutch so hardly pushing it up high in the boost.
It don't need a big exhaust at 7psi or so.

A full 3 inch with no cat and 3 inch downpipe could cause creep in some setups but of course I have external wastegate so that is not an issue.

I went under there and cut the pipe and took the car for a spin. The car is pretty much like it should be now, an animal once it goes on boost.
I was seeing around 7 to maybe 10psi doing some break in 30 to 60mph runs. Vacuum has come up to around 15 and steady. Car sounds and is running 1000% per cent better.
It needs tuning of course but the CAT was the problem! It went for being a 50 hp lawnmower to something to be reckoned with at even 7psi.
So for you doubting Thomases maybe you can learn a thing or two from an old guy once in awhile and if you have similar problem you will now what to do.Like I said CATS ARE EVIL!! LOL

Is it possible that all your over heating problems on the stock 7 bolt were from this clogged cat? I can see that happening easily. You could have waited on the 2.4 project and just modded a perfectly good engine.

So all this time you were telling us you were running 7 psi, you actually didn't have a boost gauge hooked up? Allan, you really need to tie up the loose ends on this project before you are out driving this thing, don't you think?

Did you do a basic calculation to set your global fuel and dead time? It needs to be in the ball park as well.

The 7 bolt died from oil starvation think caused by dumb dealership crushing pan before shipping it to me as they did the timing belt job on it.

It never overheated ,just started knocking and blowing blue and then water pump went at same time.

I have not dissected it yet.Too busy to worry about some 7 bolt.

I had the boost guage on since actually hitting boost. Its just not permanently mounted its ghetto mounted. Waiting on new egt sensor to install my triple gauge pod.EGT, boost/vac and fuel pressure.

I actually hit 12psi today for a second at 3/4 throttle or so. It spools like lightning once it starts.Very impressive already.

My dsmlink has the basic settings burned in the chip for my 950s. I have seen no knock flashing either its set to flash check engine at 5 counts.

Remember too my engine is all forged goodies except the crank,stainless valves,etc.It should be decently tough. But don't get me wrong not going to put 30psi thru my car tommorrow either.

I never blew up my 50 trim 92 even though lots of board guys thought I would.

I will be conservative with my new setup and watch my loggers.

The newest version of dsmlink is still a bit clunky hope that new version is done soon and they change some of it but its functional now.

As for the clogged cats causing any overheating the engine temp went normal right after installed second oem therm. No heating up since even with a cat that is likely 98% clogged up.
I think if would have tried to take longer drives the cat might have made the car overheat possibly.

The car seemed to run ok for week after I got it but it was pretty slow on test with best of 15.3 I think it was at bone stock boost ,bone stock everything.

Glad you figured it out. Allan its not about being a doubting thomas. You are all over the place with your install and diagnostics and looks like you are the only guy that knows what you are doing...well in theory at least.

As mentioned previously there is a certain path to follow with the build and a logical set of steps to follow when diagnosing a problem. You ask for help but then do what you want anyway which may or may not contribute the difficulty factor in your build.

Anyway back on subject. Normally a cat doesnt fail abruptly like that rather it is a progressive reduction in flow. If there is a sudden failure where the monolith melts and causes enough of a blockage to choke the engine then something was screwed up. The monolith can be melted when unburned fuel enters the cat. This can be caused by the car being bump started, or if the car's engine requires several turns before firing. Or the cat has been on its way out for a while and was already in bad shape before you fired it up.

I would think the later. But did have some overheat episodes of course lately. So if overheat kills it then that explains things.

I don't really know what the car was like as it only ran for week tops last year.It seemed ok but at stock boost it was pretty slow anyway and was used to my 50 trim.

I did take over a year methodically building this project.Checking and rechecking. I do like to get advice but sure don't always take it. I can think on my own and not a bad backyard mechanic.

All I know is my 97 is pretty decently fast already and it was slow as a sea slug before I opened up the downpipe.

I would assume the base dsmlink chip burn is pretty darn fat on the fuel.But fat is safe for now.

I did seem to notice a pretty big loss of bottom end right now with the open downpipe.

Got my bottom end back today and a lot of power.I had a plug wire pulled out of the coil pack,its hidden under my smim.I heard it and it was arcing to the coilpack for awhile but not really in it.
I did get cylinder 2 misfire. And it was number 2 wire.Number 2 is also old wire I had to scrounge around as coilpack was a bit farther away than wires liked.
I used two very old wires and two new ngk.
I ordered my COP today and wasn't going to spend money on any more wires.
The test pipe is on and the car is very fast now like it should be.Even only touching 12psi its very quick.

I have big exhaust leak from think the tial external. Have to fix that now.
The cat of course like said was badly plugged up.
They killed the power huge and that number two plug wire not being in the coil tower right was not great either!

I did a bit of playing tonite and dont worry this was on outskirts of town with buddies 2001 z28.His car is about 330 rwhp right now. It dynoed at 320 and he added a few small mods.I was beside him forget what gear but he hit it and I hit it roll on and from about 30 to 70mph.The talon did herself proud and did hold him decently but I was not going full throttle either.He started pulling away at 70mph but i backed it off .Would have hit 15psi as that is gate minimum setting. No boost controller on there yet.
I think would have taken him at 15psi and wot.
Of course off the line.His car runs low 13s high 12s if he was on drag tires.
So considering my low boost and self restriction to about 3/4 throttle figure the 97 is doing good.And only went to 6000 or so before shifting.
Not pushing it to the redline just yet or really being hard on the clutch.
I am done doing 30 to 70 mph break in runs.
Done a dozen or so. Buddy said I am blowing black which makes sense at factory fuel and spark settings. No serious tuning is done yet.
In fact having a problem with my dsmlink plug sending it for repair /replacment.Dont need much tuning until 500 miles are gone by.More for clutch than engine. Engine is set up loose enough it should be already pretty close to broken in.
Have 100km only on the car so far on new motor.
But that will increase big time as driving it a lot more now of course.

And how can I get my sig to not have these stupid huge gaps.It looks normal when I make it but when it comes out it looks stupid.

Making it shorter by putting your mods in your profile would probably be the easiest way.

I read that and the space after commas don't work.It looks fine when you make it up sometimes and then gets all messed in actual sig. This is the only board that does this to my sigs.

Can't the settings on the board be changed to make the entry window better or something?

Did you even try?

Here's a copy/paste of your sig:

1997TALONAWD,fully built 2.4,Fp 3065,COP,JM fab smim,extreme turbo
fmic,supra tt,950s,sx afpr,maft,
dsmlink,tial bv/gate,hd 4000,act flywheel,apexi gt down and catback
,crome msrs.
Other toys twin turbo 99 taws6,91 fwdlaser turbo,96z28 vert,80 taws6.

----

And here it is with a space added after each comma:

1997TALONAWD, fully built 2.4, Fp 3065, COP, JM fab smim, extreme turbo fmic, supra tt, 950s, sx afpr, maft, dsmlink, tial bv/gate, hd 4000, act flywheel, apexi gt down and catback, crome msrs.
Other toys twin turbo 99 taws6, 91 fwdlaser turbo, 96z28 vert, 80 taws6.

----

You're the only one with this problem, and you're the only one who can fix it.

Just and update on my car. I am finishing up reinstallation of the bumper which of course takes a bit of trimming to fit.

I got nice brackets holding it up now not home depot strapping and it is centered and level also.

I had a problem with my hood closing as I dremeled on that hood latch support and it was too weak.

I bought a strip of steel at home depot and fixed that up just fine and hood closes perfect.
By cutting that hood latch support I was able to put intercooler a bit farther back and this saved a lot of hacking on the bumper support and bumper cover.

This lets me keep the bumper support no problem at all with just a very small inch or so cut on the bottom of it. Not going to affect the structure of it at all I think.
The 2g use fiberglass bumper support not steel.

So should be able to take some pics of car with bumper back on likely tommorrow.With the talon bumper you do lose seeing more of the intercooler though and it does look a bit less itimidating with the bumper on but whatever I know I have a big one in there thats all that matters.
Hmm that sounded kinda funny!

I also took my coilpacks from under my intake and put them on top of it for temp until my COP gets here and then of course don't need wires or coilpacks.Should clean things up nicely.

And at least am using four newer ngk wires not 100,000 plus older ones for two of them like did have.

I have a big exhaust leak to fix on my 02 housing v band clamp it seems and then some very minor oil leaks to fix up.

I ordered new kvr crossdrilled cad plated silver rotors pricey but nice and my apexi should show up in a week or so and then can dump the tiny factory exhaust.

Also had a brand new msr mag have a factory screw up in it and leak thru the rim! Be a couple weeks till that comes back and have to drive around with one old eagle rim and the three nice mags.

Oh well not the end of the world at least the car is driveable after a year in garage.

Project is almost done for this year,just a few more things to do.

Update: Car is running good and getting break in miles on it. Still holding boost to around 10psi and not going full wot until 500 mile point.

Car so far is everything I would have expected.Turbo sounds great and power is not an issue anymore I know this turbo can put out more than enough for any street car and should do me proud at the track at least until get kicked off for going under 11.5 with no cage.

My clutch pressure did come up though and the clutch is getting a bit grabbier and can get a bit of chatter now but it should smooth in more as break in miles accumulate.
Its not undriveable by any means and the pedal pressure is around 2600 level.I am running hd 4000 which is competition ironman.

what kind of horsepower are you expecting?

and roughly, if you don't me asking, did this cost?

The FP3065 turbo is capable of over 650 engine hp without nitrous. I have seen a 620whp dyno of it,also off nitrous which is way over 700 engine hp.

I have similar mods so would expect similar numbers.
I will not be driving it around at those levels though daily likely around 500 or so engine hp is what I will shoot for daily driving.

As to how much into the car not even sure never added it up but would think 25,000 to 30,000 when finished is about right counting the price of the car itself. I did a lot of the work myself so that saved quite a bit.If you paid someone for a lot of it could easily have gone 5000 or more higher.

Can't wait to see the dyno's nearing 600 HP!

Well car will be down for a few days at least till order in a new oilpan and redo it.Stay the heck away from topline gasket sets they are pretty much garbage with a capital G!and not sure my used oil pan is not part of the problem
either.

I used the topline oil pan gasket and can't see why it didnt' seal torqued to spec and even tried to tighten it a bit more than spec but no dice.

Its leaking everywhere out of that junk topline gasket!

I hope the rest of my engine don't leak since used them pretty much everywhere! Should have went mits gasket set and paid the extra.

I am sick of working on this car and taking it to buddies shop when get the new oil pan and do it on overhead no more crawling around under this leaky thing.

Had some fun with the car on highway today it was pretty quick when you hold the boost for a bit.

I have to say so far was expecting the 2.4 to be a bit more impressive off boost. Not sure exactly but it seems pretty weak off boost.Hoping tuning will help it a bit,3 inch exhaust etc.

I did set up the car for higher revs I guess with the crower stage 3s and the jm fab intake manifold.Don't get me wrong the car does seem to fly pretty good once the tach goes past 4000 or so.

I guess v8s have spoiled me for around town torque.

I told you to use Ultra Grey.

Yes Chris..will use ultra grey this time or mits stuff buddy has some mits stuff from his vr4 project.

I am ordering a new oil pan from slowboy.Its heavier metal than stock and has reinforcement or something so you can't strip the bolts at the
oil return. Its cheaper than oem also.Hopefully they have one in stock or else might have to just try to use the current one with rtv.

Did you not use any sealant the first time, just the gasket? As far as I know its better just to use sealant and torque it to the spec's (not more) and let it cure.

New engine so used just the gasket no sealant should have maybe tried both at once.

Just bit more updates.Have around 200 miles on it now.Clutch is already smoothing out pedal pressure is firm but liveable chatter is manageable and should decrease further as get more miles.Its streetable now to clarify.

Engine seems to be getting more powerful its seems better even off boost already likely of course as rings seat and compression comes up.

All indicators are looking good,vacuum is around 14 and steady, oil pressure looks good and water temp holds at 1/2 way mark no problem even with only one fan cooling things and the big intercooler in the way of the rad and have driven it in 80plus degree weather no problems at all.

Touched 12 or 13psi briefly and car was feeling strong. I think can revise my comments about the stage 3 cams and smim the stuff works fine on a 2.4 on the street and makes for a wild ride past 4000 or so. The act flywheel seems to rev quick and maybe some of the quick revving is due to the crower titanium retainers and springs.

All I know is the car is pretty awesome right now and pretty much what I hoped it would be.Huge power potential but still very streetable.
A car you can daily drive but still go to the track and run respectable numbers if you feel like it.
A car that can absolutely destroy at least 90% of cars out there on the highway and maybe 95% of all cars out there.

This car would make short work at even 20psi of any car not packing at least 400 plus engine hp.

It already gave my near 400 engine hp 2001 z28 buddy a good run and he figured it would have pulled away at only 12psi if I had kept it there and gone wot not just 3/4 throttle.

I thought my 50 trim in my 92 was quick but this is another level of speed.The FP turbos are pricey but as many have said you seem to get what you paid for.

Ya, but the burning question remains, is it as fast as the 96 vert?

edit... and whens the TT kit going on the TA.

It will easily smoke the 96vert already.The 96vert should run 13.7 at 97 mph or so in its current form with about a 2.0 60ft. Last time at track it ran 14.3 at 96mph with a 2.18 60ft on nittos.
Have since added 2800 vig stall,underdrive pulley and 58 throttle body and some suspension work so figure the 13.7 is doable have done that on my tazzo. like a gtech but not backed it up at the track yet.
Vert would be kicked at 13.5 for no cage.
I have cam and rockers and zex wet kit to install in the vert but was waiting to maybe do headers and heads at same time. And that won't be this year!

The spray may be illegal now on the street if the government has its way and if that is the case not much point installing it as it would easily go low 12s on spray.And not putting a cage in any of my cars.The nhra rules specify fixed rear seat crossbrace which ruins back seat for any passengers at all.Screw that!

The twin turbo trans am is likely next summer before its done. I could possibly throw the turbos on current motor but think have current motor sold and would build a bigger bulletproof one a big 6.0 litre. Do it over the winter and should be ready for spring.

You actually plan on putting people back there?