Thanks for signing up. Did you bring any magical springs that change tension with altitude?

yup, but dont tell anyone, i havent perfected the springs yet and dont want the US goverment taking my idea!

Heh. I think all this hostility towards Allan is jealousy that we don't have that kind of money or garage space...

Good luck with the car, Allan. Working on DSMs will often make all experience working on other makes useless.

It has something to do with jeleousy I'm sure. But when he claims he's 'good for 10s' and is so uncertain about every little detail about the car, it stirs the pot of some members.

Oil pan leaks, CELs, problems after problems.

Sure his set-up is good for 10s but he needs some semi-professional help and that's why he comes to the board.

So Al, I have some words of advice. If you are going to ask for help on this many things...

1. Don't claim your car is good for 10s.
2. Don't throw the figures 3065 or 2.4L around anymore. I think EVERYONE on the board knows you have that.
3. Research before hand. Dsmtuners.com, NABR, Dsmtalk... etc.

Well lets see..
Why can't I say the car should do 10s? Similar combos have already done 10s. What is so exotic about a proven combination of parts? And I am no stranger to the track Tim ! Maybe not with talons but have gone down the track with many other cars in the past.
Also had in car timing devices since they came out with them gtech,tazzos, vericoms.

And had lots of fast cars in the past,supercharged ones,etc.And now had three dsms.
So I post about a few problems so what?. Stupid dsms do use way too many gaskets, rtv to seal up an oil pan is pretty lame and the dsms do break a lot more than all my v8s every have put together. Still they are fun when they are running.

And so my current 97 has some bugs.Thats to be expected when you put in new engine,ecu ,everything at once. Working thru them though and its driveable and decently fast and decently tuned up right now. Oil pan is finally not leaking anymore either thanks to mits rtv and some guide studs I bought to make sure it goes on there straight.

And just cause some board regulars know I have a fp3065 or 2.4 is not a reason not to mention it.
Lots of new guys don't know what they are or what the advantages of a 2.4 are over a 2.0 etc.
And the fp 3052s and 3065s are superior to most 14bs and evo 16gs,although for cheap the 14bs and evo 16s can do a decent job and take the cars decently fast.I see lots of guys wasting time with the 14b and evo 16s when they could afford a 50 trim, 3052 or 3065 and reach their goals much easier with a lot more room to grow.

I don't think I have an attitude problem. I don't post my sig to brag just to inform. Why have to ask everyone what mods they have.
A sig and timeslip if guy has one says it all just as well.

Only people that thing its bragging are people that can't afford it or are jealous. The 97 is a decent fun car. But its hardly my dream car or most peoples. A nice new z06 would be much nicer or ferrari or lambo or mercedes or whatever. If I was rich would be driving one of those cars not messing with fourth gen f bodies and dsms.

The big boards are much more informative generally than the little boards like this but sometimes the little boards are useful ,sold and bought many parts off this board.
And some guys on the board are very helpful and nice and some are just plain knobs but hey whatever.You can't get along with everybody. Lots of guys don't like me and there are quite a few guys on here I have no use for either. Such is life.

I don't force anyone to answer my posts or even read them.Some are long and might be too much for people that don't read very well or quickly.
But again you dont' have to read them then.

And as for research if you research everything before hand there is no need for a board except to talk about the 99% trivial crap that is on most boards. Its supposed to be a discussion board, a forum not a dsm technical library.

I can assure you I research and read lots about these cars and know a lot more than did a few years ago and did 90% of the wrenching on my current car. And it is actually running, unlike a lot of the cars on this board, and it faster than most of them on the board, again not brag but simply to state the facts.
Is it 10 second car yet? NO not yet. Does it have the potential to be ,obviously it does. Will it achieve its potential time will tell.
Will it blow up before it gets there? Well it is a dsm! It might! :rolleyes:


And come to think of it this was my thread originally I started it mostly to just map out my 2.4 project in the 97. So basically if you dont' like my thread GET THE HELL OUT OF IT!!!

From this point forward, this thread will only be used to discuss Allan's 2.4L "Engine Performance, Mods & Repairs".

Any more non techincal discussions (yes, this includes "bench racing"), and this thread will be locked.

Todays update:
More tuning and some tazzoing this morning. I kept things richer around 10.5 to 1 and running the 92 mohawk. The car was a bit doggy but it wasn't getting any knock to speak off holding full throttle runs at 15psi.Car felt decently quick a bit slow to spool up being this rich .Was at stock timing.
Then cranked a bit of timing into the car and it liked that,just a few degrees being cautious as always and leaned it out closer to where the turbo spools up. This worked quite well and it spools faster and still saw no knock and life is good!
I also got airflow readings of around 39.80 almost 40.00 today which should correlate to around 400 engine hp or maybe a bit higher.I am not 100% sure the relationship with airflow and hp but it is roughly around 10hp per pound of airflow.Will post on boards and find out if that is supposed to be engine or whp but think engine hp.
All I can say is the 97 feels plenty quick today and it was of course quite a bit cooler out this morning like 17 C. This don't hurt turbo cars either.

I was going to try a bit more timing or a bit leaner but think its pretty much time to crank the boost up to target 20 or so and see if can hit close to 500 airflow or around 500 or so engine. I realize may have to run the car pretty rich on our pump 92 mohawk and hoping still for 94 sooner or later.
So I think water /alco injection is not needed think can squeak 500 engine hp out of car without it but car would still be doggier than it would be with more timing and leaner mixtures.
So back to catch 22 and so think am ordering the water/alco system maybe even today.It also gives more safety on cheaper gas as long as you make sure you have mix in the injection tank and don't push the car when the injection tank is empty.

Also today and last few days did see the effects of leaning the mixture and adding more timing and there is a big difference in response especially because its a forced air car.
And as for mohawk ethanol being crap well its working great for me.The secret is tuning for it I think. It is knocking less than superstore 91 at any rate.

I did do some tazzo runs guys but kept it to some 60ft practice runs today.
I got some so so 60fts leaving off the line without using stutterbox or antilag.
I got 60fts from about 2.23 to 2.40 range just leaving off line and trying to simply rev it to 3000 or 4000 and then let the clutch out fairly quickly.
This is not that good a 60ft and you can blame that on the fact that the turbo is huge and has fair amount of lag and don't really start building boost till 3000 rpm and cars are easy to bog off the line lke the ls1s, no spin at current boost level.
Tire pressure was dead stock 32 pounds which could start mattering if was getting spin.

I then tried my stutterbox.It is adjustable and is at 4500 right now to be nice to the stock trans and axles.
I snapped off a 1.95 60ft using the stutterbox at 4500 and think could shave that down to maybe a 1.80 with some practice or higher stutterbox.
At current 15psi car is think power limited from getting a better 60ft than 1.8 or so. Upping boost should definitely improve the 60ft and would expect 1.6 or so pretty easily on these firestone fuzions they seem pretty sticky.
Never tried any antilag yet.This could also cut 60fts drastically but not sure want to use it much on current axles and trans. Next year for sure will use it at least a couple of track runs.

It was tempting to make a run with that 1.95 but wasn't set to quarter mile and there wasn't enough road to do it where I was.Still in town but in industrial part of town.

The tazzo 1/4 mile times are getting closer to being run though as it seems pretty much all bugs have been worked out of the car.
Car is running good and strong. A bit more launch practice and think its time for some runs to see where it is at. May try one at 15 and one at 20 or so.Maybe a few with some xylene in there also.

As everyone said talk is cheap and proof is hard numbers.
Be getting some soon .

I copied that off some other posts I made on different boards.
Can anyone clear up what the actual hp is from airflow is it more whp or engine hp? So does 40 pounds of aiflow mean 400 engine or 400 whp?

I guess 90% of dsm owners, are wasting their time then...

Thanks for enlighting us. :rolleyes:

We can clearly see all of those advantages you are talking about.

I said new guys Mat. You are getting a 2.4 so you obviously think they are way to go for you.
They are great for street cars they tame big turbos and they help off boost torque and driveability which also helps with big cams and
sheet metal intakes which can weaken the bottom end pretty bad on 2.0 engines.

And I have owned t25s and 14bs and pushed them pretty hard although not had an evo 16 which does sound like a great street turbo and can turn decent track times as well.

But once you have driven an 50 trim or bigger car or felt what a 3065 feels like they are a whole other level of power and speed.

They may not be that great a choice for beginners but when its time to get serious
the FP 3052 or FP 3065 take no prisoners.And the FP greens and reds are not too shabby either as are the many other good 50trim type turbos.
Why go small when you can go bigger if you can afford the support mods?

One buddy on another board went thru 14b, evo 16,agp rs49, agp rs60t and finally holeset 35/40.
He wishes now he had just got a 3052 or 3065 and been done with it.

A small turbo like a 14b or evo 16 g will be crazy nuts on a 2.4. You would be in boost almost right off idle which would be fun but make the car a real handful if you drive it in adverse weather or winter. And likely get a lot of tickets. A big turbo has advantage of not being in boost all the time and does require more downshifting if you want the big sleeping beast to turn into superdragon quickly.

But the top end rush of a 2.4 with a big turbo and support mods has to be experienced to be believed. At 15psi this car is starting to scare me and I know fast! At 30psi it will be completely nuts or as Kevin K on the board said in email to me of his Fp red at 25 I think it was one word.."INSANE!!"

And never said you can't get a 14b or evo to go good times but it is a heck of a lot more work to do it with them and will require race gas almost for sure and seriously lightening of the car or nitrous in fairly big shots.

Now imagine a nice huge turboed 2.4 with a decently big shot of spray and you have guaranteed recipe for crazy fast car.And I LIKE
CRAZY!!

:rolleyes:

I give up...

A 2.0L 16G powered car just went 11.88 on pump in Stoon yesterday. I dont remember the mph off hand, but another run he hit 118mph.

Interesting Chris. Too bad wasn't able to make it up there at least to watch the racing.

That don't sound too believable though.
I can't run decent afr or timing on our crap gas although they have 94 in Stoon only 91 and 92 here.

Are you maybe forgetting to mention the nitrous or maybe the guy lied and is using race gas or pump with say xylene /toluene in there or his car is superlightened. How about a bit more details here? FWD,AWD etc..60fts,boost level ,etc.
So you are trying to say this car could hit mid to low 11s on race with a evo 16? Don't think thats possible.

Not going to call bs but wish was there to verify a few facts.Maybe he just said he had an evo 16..some guys love to bs what they have or don't have under their hoods.

I searched the fastest times on dsmtuners and dsmtalk and didn't find any evo 16s or big 16s running anything like that mph on anything but race gas or spray or both.
So that would be a new record I bet on pump with an evo 16! No spray huh?

I think someone is pulling your chain their Chris.He is running race at like 30psi on that thing or he has spray or he don't have an evo 16.
Or he just set a new record for pump gas evo 16 cars.

I would at least think he would have water/alco injection to make this a remote possibility on pump gas.or this car is like a fwd stripped down to nothing.Fwd can get pretty light.

Alky injection, And I poked around with the guy under the hood, it's an EVOIII. Also watched all his passes AND had pics of the scoreboards when he ran the times http://gallery.beezsk.com/main.php?g2_itemId=12257
http://gallery.beezsk.com/main.php?g2_itemId=12434

You're still green in the DSM game Al, you need to get some timeslips instead of just writing cheques if you want to get some respect around here. Telling veteran members they don't know sh!t or someone is pulling their chain when they see results first hand doesn't win you friends. It just proves age doesn't neccesarily mean wisdom.

Pure meth if that is what he ran is pretty much identical in effect to running race gas.Not much difference and meth may even work better than pure race gas do to cooling effects etc.
If he was only running a 50 /50 type mix then even more impressed.
I looked at all the dsmtuner times and mph and no evos close to that time or mph on pure pump gas.So already you have to modify the pump gas a bit.
100% meth injection is not really pure pump gas run is it?
But have heard of guys running 30psi on my turbo with 100% meth on pump. And Kevin K on site runs think he said 25 or more on his water/alco setup.

Anyway that is a great time for an evo 16 but 3052s and 3065s have gone much faster although if you want to be picky again in 1gs not 2gs so far.

And what does that car weigh now..how stripped is it.FWD or AWD? FWD stripped can weigh in at like 2400 pounds my 91 loaded only weights 2700 or so me out.
Its a nice time for sure for an evo 16 however he did it and with shot of spray could hit
low 11s or did he spray it on top of the meth.

I ran some baseline runs today and posted them on the f body board .Not at track but on tazzo.They are not great but your prediction on f body Blake was I would run 14s now ,13s with a lot of practice and maybe 12s in a year or more.

Well you are out to lunch there Blake.
Ran three times just baseline runs. 3/4 tank of fuel,heavy dual subbox in car ,spare tire in car heavy 17 inch crome mags.Heavy me 220 pounds.
4500 stutterbox. No powershifting,granny shifting only. Redline 7500 shifting at 6500 or so.1bar spring no boost controller approx 14psi.Rough slightly tweaked pig rich dsmlink tune.Timing near stock.

These are tazzo vpc runs not track but the tazzo was track compared several times in my other cars. It was about 2.5 mph high and right on for et and 60ft.
These are raw tazzo times not correct for altitude or tazzo high mph error.

Run 1: 13.38 at 106mph 2.0 60ft.
Run 2:13.56 at 105.6mph 2.0 60ft.
Run 3 13.48 at 104.8 mph 1.95 60ft aborted at top due to traffic.

So not great but already mid to low 13s.Betting can get tolow 13s with just taking out subs,spare and running 1/8 tank.Hi 12s with just some tuning And hit mid 12s running a 1.7 or 1.6 off higher stutterbox or off antilag.

And thats at 14psi on pump 92 not 100% meth or nitrous.
So while not amazed not overly depressed.

So never said the 14bs and evo16s can't turn decent times and they spool fast so they are fun on the street. Just insisting that they can't turn the mph and times the big ones can.Its simply airflow. A bigger turbo outflows the
smaller ones.It will make more hp simple as that.

But that is likely a new evo 16 record from reading thru the evo times. Good job and great a dsm did that at the track.Always nice to see a dsm run good. Saw few fast dsms last year as well.

I trapped 98 mph with a 14B doing 16 psi witn minimum mods at Cayuga. I am sure if I ran it at 18 psi and tuned it a little more I can trap easy over 100mph. Thats with stock fuel injectors and with 94 octane fuel. Yeah I have some other supporting mods, but I noticed with a 14B, I really don't need injectors yet. At 16 psi, I was running 92% duty cycle which isn't too bad. Anyway, with your setup even at 14 psi, it should trap a lot more than that. Maybe you need to really tune the car.

I had a 14b in my 92 and have one in my 91 laser fwd.
I agree that need some tuning for sure.Just started the tuning process and just starting to get the hang of it. Not sure how much of the low mph right now is do to maybe the 3065 not being very efficient at 14psi. Whereas the 14b is more in its sweet spot there. I dont' think have any boost leaks didn't when tested short while ago. The car doesn't sputter or anthing it pulls all the way to redline.

At least got some baseline runs had to start somewhere.I also would think my car is down some mph from heavy sub box in back, running 3/4 tank and me being fairly heavy guy.And my mags and tires are not light either. Be interesting to see the current raceweight on the car.
But that 106 is only about 104 compared to track mph and that is pretty weak I admit.

http://www.dsmtimes.org/times.php?Header_Type=Turbo_16g&Page=1

29 16G cars listed in the 11's without n2o, 5 listed trapping over 120.

I dont think anyone is yanking my chain :rolleyes: Plus his car is still well over 3000lbs race weight.

You better put some times down at SIR, the lip flapping is getting old.

Al is obviously a bonafide DSM God. Everyone bow down to his awesomeness.

Looks like you are correct there are lots of evo 16s and 16s doing around that mph but dont' tell me most of them are on pure pump gas or aren't lightened up.
And you guys didn't say if he ran 100% meth which could be as good or better than pure race gas.

And there are tons of way faster bigger turbo cars on that same site. So not sure what your guys point is. You are trying to defend the smaller turbos for some reason?

Because they are a cheaper? Because they can spool up faster? Its great they can turn great times but if it was so simple to turn these numbers with a 16 then how come Blake ran 12.7 with his 16? Or is that number wrong Blake?

I agree talk is getting old thats why starting to at least tazzo the car now. I can't be going to SIR every weekend and why when my tazzo was same et and 60ft exactly as track. I can take pics of my tazzo times for you guys if necessary or have another guy in the car ,Chris you can ride shotgun maybe.

I think the 14b is a great turbo and the evo sounds great too. But cmon after having had a 50 trim and now a 3065 there is no comparison.

And you are talking pure 1/4 mile stuff here.
I dont' only care about quartermile. I am quite sure a 50trim or bigger will anihilate a 14b or 16g on high speed highway type runs.

You don't honestly think a 14 b or 16g can hold off a big turbo on high speed runs do you?
Top speed and high traps take hp pure and simple.The higher traps prove higher hp. Et is mostly driving,60fts,traction.
In the quarter the fast spool up of the smaller turbos helps out get them going a bit sooner than the big ones although suspect by using antilag and getting the big turbos spooling up off the line that advantage would get smaller.

And Chris if you want to get picky I don't believe your car is up and running yet or we could prove the small turbo versus big turbo arguement pretty quickly.

And if anyone else wants to come try my 97 in Regina with a 14b or 16 g feel free to come by once I get the boost to 20psi at least and get it tuned up. And will run on pump gas no problem there and by pump mean 100% pump not 100% meth or xylene or tolene or few gallons of race.

Lets see what that fast 16g runs on pure 94.If it can still hit its 119.80 that will be truly impressive.
But hey he shoud be able to hit 10s on spray.And anything that hits 10s has my respect.

This is why I said go to the track, your racing on the streets, its fracking dumb.

Blake you are way out of line.I don't think have ever met you or you me.

I never said I knew it all about dsms although had three now in various states of mods.
T25,14bs,50 trims and 3065.
I ask lots of questions on this and the other forums,try to learn as much as I can ,surf the big boards.And actually buy the hardware ,install most of it myself,try to tune my cars myself and drive them myself.

You said I would be lucky to run 14s on the f body board, 13s with lots of practice and 12s in year or two.Betting will be running 12s in weeks not years.Want to take that bet..Chris can come along to verify the run if you want he lives in my city.

And if the 16 g is so easy to get 11s out of then why did Blake who acts like he knows everything about the dsms and has all this much more experience then me why is your best time a 12.7 from what I remember..was that pump or race?
So easy to run 11s with evo 16s right?
And who on the board is running 11s on there evo on pure 100% pump gas. or near 120mph?

I never once said my 97 has run 10s nor have I posted bogus times or fake timeslips which are super easy to get,most guys throw them on the ground or
in the garbage.And they dont' even say what car they are just a number.

I have a combo that can run 10s potentially. Up to me and maybe higher powers to see if my car can actually do that.
I am now tuning and posting times as I progress along the path to faster times. That is what this thread was meant to be.A diary if you will of my 97 project. With as much detail as I could put in . Too much detail.ok fine..don't read it!

But I will tell you I am very stubborn and if really want something usually get it.

And hate to bring up age but was driving plenty fast cars before most of you guys were on this planet.But you can always learn more and age doesn't mean wisdom or sometimes even knowledge.

And still not sure why you guys are so hard on an old guy like me? I obviously like dsms. I like modding them. I like a bit of bench racing and bsing..pissing contests ,pissing into the wind whatever.
You guys are getting too serious again. 1/4 mile is not be all end all. Just one area. I can make any car fast and sometimes for cheap. I have done that in the past with dropping huge engines into tiny cars like vegas and monzas. Crude but very effective. More important is to have a nice well rounded car that can do most all things a good car should do,handle, brake, look nice, be decently fast top speed and quarter. The dsms meet those criteria and thats why I like them.Awd is great fun too.

But a modern v8 can also do those things ,newer ones get just as good a mileage as the dsms and can do back to back quartermile runs with zero fear of breakage on street tires or nittos.

And v8s have way way more torque then these little four bangers. But on boost the 4 bangers are fun little things.V8s on boost are scarey monsters.

If you guys are happy running around on your stock or near stock dsms thats great. If you like 17 second cars fine too. Having a fast car don't make you a better person.They are just fun.
Expensive fun usually and especially if you are dumb and get lots of tickets or in lots of accidents.
My liscence is minimum and haven't had an accident that was my fault for like thirty years.
And I do drive my cars. And they get driven hard sometimes and put away wet.
They are not garage queens except for my baby the 99 ta which was bought brand new.

Now how about getting back on track here.I won't talk much more theory. Am actually timing the car now as tuning and boost progress.

And you guys with t25s and 14bs and 16gs can quit trying to justify them to me. I like big turbos,big TITS,big v8s with twin turbos.Big hp!Big torque.And 10 second quarters and 200mph top end impress me as well.In any car.

Nathan ran those times early sunday morning in industrial part of town totally deserted and divided two lane highway.Aborted do to car coming on other side of divided highway don't take chances with my liscence its minimum with zero accidents my fault in thirty years.
I am not stupid and don't put other people at risk. I speed like most people carefully and as safely as possible.
And not very many people out at 6am sunday mornings around here. And you can see for miles on flat Sask highways nowhere for cops to hide either.
So chill out we all speed here and there. But agree racing on crowded public roads is stupid.
Don't do it ,don't condone it!

And be happy to go to track much more often if it wasn't over two hours away and if you couldn't get rained out after spending money on gas,hotels,etc. And when you have a family you can't just run to the track every time you want to test your car. Thats why they sell gtech and tazzo things. For when you have no track near you.
Course 1/8 mile would be better to do but can't relate to 1/8 mile much.
Track if fun I go there a few times a year. Plan on hard track numbers next year. But don't think the tazzo and gtech aren't accurate for et and 60fts .Mph is a bit high 3mph or so as track averages last so many feet and gtech is in car and actually true mph the car is going track is actually low and technically wrong as its an estimate.

Give me some of your money and Ill have it done right away. Some of us work our asses off 40-50+ hours a week to be able to put money into our cars. We're just proving you can go fast for cheap no need to sink tens of thousound of dollars into a car to make it fast. Money doesnt always equal results. You need to buy an Evo you would fit right in with, the guys in the states with stokers, GT turbos yadda yadda yadda, running 11's and 12's. We're doing for a few thousand dollars, minimall mods etc.

I used to work 40 plus hours a week running a stereo store and speed shop. Lucky I don't have to work that many hours anymore.I work smarter not harder now!

But when I was young I also dropped most of my extra cash into my cars which looking back was pretty dumb.Cars are lousy investments. I would lose big if sold any of my cars likely, at least lose most of the mods value.

And don't have that much into my 97 but it is past 20,000. But like my 2g more than my 1g.And 2gs cost more to buy. I did cut costs by doing as much as possible myself.

I was thinking of doing up the 91fwd turbo for cheap to go fast. But like the 97 better nicer car. Got air, power everything ,leather.So be selling the 91 I think.But it would make a nice racecar.

Of course you could run fast for cheap if you want to. Going fast is often not about money. Buy a chevette for like 500 bucks. Drop in a used v8 and go fast for cheap.

And Chris I bought both my complete motors for under 500 bucks each ,fact bought the 2.0 for like 250 bucks. You could have easily bought a cheap trans off the board or wrecker likely for hundred or two and thrown it into your car while you built up your high perf trans. It only takes an afternoon to throw in a trans.Assuming the stupid axles cooperate! And you could have been driving that 12 or 11 second car as it don't need a super tranny to run 12s and quite a few guys running 11s on their stock trannies.

But sure you will get it running eventually.And you have done a real nice job on it, it should run good.You can call me if you need a hand on it and will be glad to help you out like you did for me.Give me a call and we can straighten out from last time you helped me out.

Sounds like Blake should put the Porsche on hold, and maybe get that Talon instead... Then this conversation would really be fun.

Two guys with money, trying to prove each other wrong:D

I raced several porches including buddies hopped up 911 many times with my various cars.Never lost to it even once.It sucked for quatermile unless you are talking the really new ones it had the worst shifting you an imagine for quatermile runs.It ground every gear and was really only a good road car.I think they finally fixed the shifting but forget what year.I think most of the porches are serious overpriced junk!
His leaked oil worse than the dsms! And cost way way more!
I used to want a porche in the worst way even came close to a 928 once ,won it at auction then got out of the deal when saw the actual car. Is was misrepresented so they had to let me off the hook.
So bring on the porches pretty sure except for the really newest high end ones the 97 would walk all over it!

I can believe an evo can go 11s at 120. Just that it takes a bit more than pure pump to do it.

Water or meth injection does work good on turbo cars of course and about ready to order a kit as our pump gas is so crappy. Timing and good afr makes the car a lot faster and so does more boost.And the big turbos especially like more boost.

I have other good internet talon buddy that had
all the turbos, 14b,evo 16,rs49,rs60t and holeset
35/40. He also got high 11s out of his evo at like 120 with some race gas. Still he said a properly tuned big turbo shoudl do that at maybe 20psi and go 5,10 or more mph faster than an evo at higher boost levels on race or water/meth injection and it was no comparison past quartermile speeds where the big turbos just pull super hard and forever.
As keep saying top speed and higher speeds with higher air resistance take more hp.

So that is where comparing how much the big turbo would pull on the evo car would really matter in high speed roll ons or top end runs.

My 99 trans am could likely run 10 second quaters at maybe 5 to 8psi with similar trap speeeds to a 30psi big turbo talon.
Its torque would be off the scale compared to a 4 banger and it would suck the tailights out of just about any turbo four banger on longer runs or top speed type runs. Got to streetfire site and watch the vidoes of the big turbo v8 cars especially roll on races that go to high speeds.
Heck NA v8s can often beat the super and turbo cars in roll on high speed races.

As already said many times.The 14b and evo 16 are good bangs for the buck no question.

But sooner or later bigger is better. A stock lt1 or stock ls1 is much faster than bone stock stock boost dsm.Now you can mod the dsms easily to get closer on the stock turbos. But you can also mod the lt1 and ls1s pretty easily.

Personal preference. I like v8s off boost way way more than little 4 bangers. The old arguement of gas mileage is out the window my lt1 and ls1 cars can knock down similar mileage to a four banger and get over 30mph on the highway with 500 hp or more. My old 80 ta was a serious gas hog with big 6.6 litre engine and old technology.

So as said 14b and evo 16 guys can lighten up.
I am only arguing that evo 16 turning near 120 at local track is not on pure pump unless you define meth as pure pump.
It obviously ran that time Blake took pics of the timers. But what other mods it has to do that time he didn't say. Maybe it has cams and sheet metal intake and the other support mods.

I hit 105mph in my FWD laser at 18psi. Bone stock non-turbo engine(9:1). Stock sidemount.

You just sound a bit like the guys on NABR, Allen. "You ain't got s##t if you're not running a 3065 or FP Red at least..."

They're just talking to hear themselves talk, and to be eLiTe. Sure, you can just buy the high-end gear and slap it on which SHOULD get you big numbers, but not necessarily. Without taking the time to get baselines for your unmodded engine and systems you'll find yourself slower than someone that has sank 4+ years into their 16g setup. Even with a smaller turbo, they deserve the respect...

The 16g is a good match for the 2L engine. I got yelled at when I mentioned the 3065 with nitrous, etc. was a rather brutish way of doing it with an almost unstreetable setup, but that's the truth. That's a HUGE turbo to spin with a tiny 4 cylinder efficiently.

Your setup is impressive, and ultimately should be almost as fast as you think. It just takes the time and patience to get it running right.

Colin I have a fwd 92 turbo also and sure it could get similar times but its pathetic for 60fts on current street tries..goodyear rsas best is a 2.4 and you don't want to know the quartermile times at 15psi..they suck.Car is light though and would be a nice fast track car.
Just dont think can afford two dsms they are money pits!If it was awd would maybe keep it for my winter beater.

And Troy a 3065 is a bit much on a 2.0. The 3052 or fp green would make a better choice for all around street and strip use.
I got the 3065 after much debate as do have a 2.4 so it spools similar to a 3052 or my old RS49 50 trim did on a 2.0.
Its decently streetable you do have to downshift if you are in third in town or fifth on the highway but hit second in town and boost is right there,hit fourth or third on highway and same thing.
I do not go into boost as much around town which can be ok depending on how you like it. It saves gas likely and maybe traffic tickets.
The 2.4 helps a bit off boost as well. Its not a v8 but its better than 2.0s. And had three 2.0s so far. The 2g with its higher compression was a bit snappier off boost.Too bad 2g 7 bolts seem to have problems although mine seems to have died from some dufus crushing the oil pan before I got the car not from crankwalk.

I am not trying to sound like the NABR assholes.
They are in a league of their own.
And never ever said that a big turbo is best for everybody. On a 2.0 an evo 16 is great all around street strip turbo. A 14b is not even that bad. A t25 well those just suck!

And 50 trim or 3052 type is also killer on a 2.0.
You can get lower 11s and possibly 10s with these big ones. Not likely you will see lower 11s and 10s with evos unless you spray pretty big shots or seriously lighten the car to race car levels.

So apoligize if have somehow offended the 14b and 16g guys but more airflow is more hp and if you optimize that hp its going to make a faster ride.And especially on the highway.

And am going to say this again.If you haven't been in a big turboed decently tuned car you should try to get a ride or test drive in one.
They are another level of power and speed.

And while my personal car is now only a 13.3 best at 106 or whatever mph that is I am sure just a tip of what it can do with some tuning and upping the boost and better 60fts.

And gave up on our pump gas crap so ordered a snow water/alco system today to guarantee can run some decent boost levels no matter what gas we have.


That super fast evo 16 car that was running 11.88 at near 120 at our track fastest street car thing was running meth either 100% or water/alco mix. Thats good evidence what system like that can do.

If I can't hit a low 11 or high 10 out of my 97 without nitrous that goes on next season then will part it out for cheap. But don't hold your breath guys.That 13.3 run is untuned pretty much at 1bar.