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Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200459
July 08, 2006 02:58 am UTC
July 08, 2006 02:58 am UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Ok my topline gasket didn't work at all on my oil pan. It leaked like a sieve and it was torqued to spec.

So doing it the old fashioned way with ultra gray.

I have pan off and cleaned surfaces with brake cleaner. I got the old gasket off after a lot of extra work.But it is off.

So how long do I let the ultra gray sit on pan and then when put it on engine how long should I let it sit before putting oil back in the motor?

Some are saying put the oil in right away. Some say wait overnight and some say 24 hours.

What do you guys do that have done this and any problems from not waiting long enough?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200460
July 08, 2006 03:11 am UTC
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Amin Ahmadi Offline
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right away sounds like a bad idea to me.
you should let it settle atleast

I would personaly let it dry...

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200461
July 08, 2006 03:19 am UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Why don't you seal it up now, and do the rest in the morning?
Overnight will be long enough, for sure.

However, I believe it does say 24 hours for full cure, right on the package.
If you are skeptical, just go for the long haul. It can't hurt.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200462
July 08, 2006 03:21 am UTC
July 08, 2006 03:21 am UTC
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Chris Clark Offline
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Overnight is plenty of time. I usually never wait, car running and driving within 30min, and have never had a problem.


1990 TSi AWD - Parked since I bought it (Jan24/03)
Had it out one day, and busted the trans.
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200463
July 08, 2006 03:32 am UTC
July 08, 2006 03:32 am UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Too late tonite guess do it tommorrow morning or afternoon. And leaving it extra day is ok not in huge rush since have other vehicles.
Is it going to be hard to get the pan lined up without smearing the rtv you can't get a totally straight down shot at it.
Was wondering if maybe could find some metric studs to use as temp guides maybe?

And will it stick up there not bad with just the rtv long enough to get some bolts on there?

Gaskets do seem a whole lot easier but the gasekt didn't work ..was maybe worth a try but in hindsight it wasn't. Yes Chris you told me so!

Should I waste money on the mits sealer if can get some from other guy that has it ,is it much better than ultra gray?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200464
July 08, 2006 04:49 am UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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You're worrying way too much about this, especially since you have the time to let it cure fully.

I'm not even sure Mitsu is in the business of making RTV... Permatex is for sure - what does that tell you?

Maybe use a small screwdriver through one of the holes to hold the pan aligned (but not touching), while you get a bolt in the opposing corner.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200465
July 08, 2006 05:07 am UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Good idea on the small screwdriver Rob.
And you are right but after having my car leak like a pig after thinking the gasket would work and having to go thru taking things all apart again especially the heavy annoying to get back on transfer case I want to try to make sure don't have to do this again right away.

Also getting leaking thing from the senders and relief plug in my oil filter housing. Will teflon tape or paste work or should I get like some kind of pipe dope? And is there certain brand of pipe dope that works better?
Also think oil return line is leaking. Got good gasket from fp and even got crush washers maybe should put thin coat of rtv on the gasket?

Never had so much trouble with oil leak on any car before this one.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200466
July 08, 2006 06:06 am UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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For the senders, a good wrap of teflon tape will usually fix it.
Otherwise, there is Loctite #30557, in a "life's supply" size bottle and costs not much more than $10.

Do a search for "oil return". There is a recent discussion on getting rid of thoes leaks.
Basically, at the pan side you should use the stock crush washers and have some RTV around the bolt holes. Considering the surfaces are cleaned - the gasket is doing its job and it is actually the bolts that the oil gets by.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200467
July 08, 2006 06:08 am UTC
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Amin Ahmadi Offline
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you clean both surfaces,

apply a thin layer to both sides. let them be for a short while . just don't miss around the holes and what not.

then put the pan back on. you could have two of the bolt on or as said use a screw driver to align it. Seems like common sense to me. and then put in the rest of them.

after a day when it is cured, you could try retightening them.

And no....it is not a big deal if some squeezes out. it happens anyways.


GE, Pentax, 3M whatever the hell the brand, as long as it is temperature-wise rated for the job. It doesn't make ANY difference. But if it makes you sleep better if you buy it from MItsu, the shop manual has some names listed


So let's see how many posts it takes for an pil pan to get installed!

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200468
July 08, 2006 04:43 pm UTC
July 08, 2006 04:43 pm UTC
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Darren Schoff Offline
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You would be better of using the black RTV, grey is generally used for aluminum. 1/4" bead down the middle of the flange and make sure you go to the inside of the bolt holes. Let it sit 2-3 hours before you add oil & drive. Better off if you can let it sit 12 hours though.


90 Laser RS-T
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200469
July 08, 2006 04:59 pm UTC
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Chris Clark Offline
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Just make sure the RTV you do buy is sensor safe.


1990 TSi AWD - Parked since I bought it (Jan24/03)
Had it out one day, and busted the trans.
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200470
July 08, 2006 05:48 pm UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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I put in ultra gray its still supposed the recommended one. I put it on and lightly tightened it and came back couple hours later and torqued it to 5 ft pounds.
I am going to leave it likely till tommorrow morning.

Crossing my fingers that it works.
I also did use teflon tape on my senders on my oil filter housing.It appears to have dissolved.

So was thinking permatex sealer is that what you are talking about Rob that permatex number didn't seem to match the things I saw..saw the usual red, blue loctitie and high temp sealer.
Assume to use the high temp sealer or maybe pipe dope? Why doesn't teflon take oil for very long?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200471
July 08, 2006 05:53 pm UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Ok searched net and found pipe sealant.the 557 stuff. Not sure where to get it though maybe home depot?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200472
July 08, 2006 06:11 pm UTC
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Jerry Rose Offline
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The use of RTV on a narrow perimeter gasket like an oil pan isnt the best idea because the RTV is also a lubricant which can cause the gasket to move when the bolts are tightened and cause leaks. RTV stands for room temperature vulcanization and requires time for the chemical process to be completed to form the rubbery compound which resists moisture, heat and chemicals.


Quote
Dynatex RTV Silicone Sealant is a paste-like, one-component material, which cures to a tough, rubbery solid upon exposure to moisture in the air. Formulated for gasket making applications. Sensor safe and manufactured to meet OEM specifications. Makes instant, leak proof gaskets for all engines, drive train equipment, and related components. Resists oil, water, anti-freeze, and transmission fluid. Works on all vehicles.

Dynatex RTV Silicone Sealant has good resistance to weathering, vibration, moisture, ozone and extreme temperatures. It may be applied in sub-zero weather without loss of extrusion or physical property characteristics and is effective to -35C (-30F). Fully cured Dynatex Black RTV can be used for temperatures up to 625 F (343 C)

USES
Dynatex RTV Silicone Sealant may be used for:
Valve covers, oil pans, transmissions pans, rear-end housings, timing chain covers, thermostat housings, water pumps, and oil pump flanges

HOW TO USE
Applying

Tack-Free Time: Dynatex RTV Silicone Sealant is supplied in ready-to-use form. It flows readily from its container under pressure. A spatula or wooden paddle can be used to tool the surface.

Cure progresses inward from the surface. At conditions of 25C (77F) and 50-percent relative humidity, a tack-free skin forms within 20 minutes. Tooling should be completed within 5 to 10 minutes of application. Alternate periods of application and tooling may be required. If masking tape is used to mask an area it must be removed before the tack-free skin forms.

Cure Time: Cure time is affected by relative humidity, degree of confinement and cross-sectional thickness of the sealant. Sections up to 1/8-inch thick become rubbery solids in about 24 hours at room temperature at 20-percent relative humidity. More moisture content reduces cure time slightly. In 24 hours, sections up to 1/8-inch thick cure to a rubber with a Shore A Durometer Hardness of about 20 points. After 3 days at room temperature, this durometer hardness levels off to about 24 points.

In applications where Dynatex RTV Silicone Sealant may be partially or totally confined during cure, the time required for proper cure is generally lengthened by the degree of confinement. It is possible that with absolute confinement cure will not be completed. The result is the softening of the sealant at elevated temperatures. Metal-to-metal bonds should not overlap more than one inch. Every application involving confinement during cure should be thoroughly tested before commercialization.

Curing time increases with the thickness of the sealant. A 1/2-inch cross section, for example, may require 3 or 4 days for complete solidification. However, the cure will have penetrated the outer 1/8-inch in about 24 hours.

Adhered to glass, metal or most woods, Dynatex RTV Silicone Sealant has a typical peel strength of 20 pounds per inch. After 72 hours at room temperature.

An odor caused by the liberation of acetic acid is given off during cure. This odor disappears as the cure progresses and is not detectable after cure is complete.
As a side note the problem for use of RTV for carrier bearings shows up in the manufacturers statement that confinement has a big effect on ability to completly cure.


Every day I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive.
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200473
July 08, 2006 09:42 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:
Ok searched net and found pipe sealant.the 557 stuff. Not sure where to get it though maybe home depot?
Any Loctite dealer should have it.
Check out your local industrial tool and machine retailer.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200474
July 08, 2006 11:25 pm UTC
July 08, 2006 11:25 pm UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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I used some permatex liguid sealer appears to be a teflon paste. I hate teflon tape with a passion. See how this paste works.

I am finished up just letting the car sit till tommorrow anyway since busy doing other stuff tonite.

Tommorrow morning is the test.I have never rtved and entire oil pan in my life before hope it works out.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200475
July 09, 2006 03:33 pm UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Hmm started up car this moring. Seems got the pan to stop leaking and used permatex paste on the oil filter housing senders and they aren't leaking. Oil return think it stopped leaking.
So seems good.
But have fluid not sure if oil or syncrhromesh all over drivers axle and it drips on downpipe and on oil pan it gets as far as inner boot.

Can shot drivers axle seal cause it to run down the axle or wouldn't it just drip out and go straight down. It seems it gets slung all over from being on the axle.I also don't see it leaking much at idle. Would it leak much more after driving it if the axle seal is shot.

I would assume to change out drivers side have to drop transfer case again, downpipe,axle bracket and putt out the axles not sure if just taking off the bracket will get me enough to get the seal out and put the axle back in?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200476
July 09, 2006 05:59 pm UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Ok on closer inspection at least at idle it is an oil leak still right above the drivers side inner joint. it leaks on the oipan near the plug or on the frame or it can sling the oil around when car is moving I guess. I can see an actual dripping happening when peek under the car and it seems to be coming from the oil pan to block area where the one bolt is obscured by the halfshaft inner joint closest to drivers side.

I did encircle all the bolt holes with the rtv and did let it sit a good 24hours before driving or even filling the car up.

I have nice stainless bolts with torx heads on them and its impossible to tighten that bolt without taking the bracket off the axle to
get access.Not a huge deal just was trying to tighten it without having to do much else. Even cut an allen key or whatever down so it might fit in the space but it won't. Course normal bolt would work better for access.
I am sure thought that torqued that bolt properly.
Not sure why it would leak there and why it would
have to be in the most annoying place to get to to see what is going on exactly.

I am wondering if tightening don't work then have to pull pan again I guess. That seems to be the only leak which really sucks but its a messy one!
If it was just about anywhere else you would get a few drops on the ground but no this leak has to go on the joint and get slung everywhere!

Is there any way putting some rtv in the joint might seal it up just with finger? Or anyother pruduct that might work to seal it without pan removal it don't seem like huge leak just little steady stream of droplets.

I also was thinking maybe coming from higher up but dont' seem to be leaking from the valve cover gasket or pan seals.
Anyone else have a leak from somewhere else that was going on that center joint?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200477
July 09, 2006 07:36 pm UTC
July 09, 2006 07:36 pm UTC
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Darin Chalifoux Offline
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Rear main seal housing? Have fun with that one.


1992 Talon AWD Auto
1993 Dodge Colt
1997 Ram 1500 4x4 360cid
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200478
July 09, 2006 07:41 pm UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Umm how can a rear main seal leak from above on my drivers side and land on my axle. That don't seem very plausible.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200479
July 09, 2006 10:47 pm UTC
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[/QB][/QUOTE]
Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:
Ok on closer inspection at least at idle it is an oil leak still right above the drivers side inner joint. it leaks on the oipan near the plug or on the frame or it can sling the oil around when car is moving I guess. I can see an actual dripping happening when peek under the car and it seems to be coming from the oil pan to block area where the one bolt is obscured by the halfshaft inner joint closest to drivers side.
ok, so now you know it is not tranny fluid and it is motor oil, FOR SURE?

Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:

I did encircle all the bolt holes with the rtv and did let it sit a good 24hours before driving or even filling the car up.

I have nice stainless bolts with torx heads on them and its impossible to tighten that bolt without taking the bracket off the axle to
get access.Not a huge deal just was trying to tighten it without having to do much else. Even cut an allen key or whatever down so it might fit in the space but it won't. Course normal bolt would work better for access.

I guess the money didn't help you there. Hex head bolts are as capable, and easier to work with. and honestly nobody check under your oilpan to see how cool you are.

make sure the few shorter bolts for around the TB area are not too long
Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:

I am sure thought that torqued that bolt properly.
Not sure why it would leak there and why it would
have to be in the most annoying place to get to to see what is going on exactly.

I am wondering if tightening don't work then have to pull pan again I guess. That seems to be the only leak which really sucks but its a messy one!
If it was just about anywhere else you would get a few drops on the ground but no this leak has to go on the joint and get slung everywhere!

Is there any way putting some rtv in the joint might seal it up just with finger? Or anyother pruduct that might work to seal it without pan removal it don't seem like huge leak just little steady stream of droplets.
this is a bandaid patch that possibly wouldn't work to begin with. Because the oil is obviously pressurised. And by now everything is oily so the silicon wouldn't stick anyways. Silicon is good for thin layers to fill the small gaps.


Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:

Anyone else have a leak from somewhere else that was going on that center joint?
I do have a similar problem which I am suspecting is the oil pan. But mine lasted 110K before it started to leak.

Quote
Originally posted by Amin Ahmadi:
you clean both surfaces,

So let's see how many posts it takes for an oil pan to get installed!
I still curious to see how long it takes for "the 97's oilpan" to seal. cause most of the "worthless teenagers" on this board do it as a matter of course.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200480
July 10, 2006 12:30 am UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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Amin do I detect a bit of attitude in your answer?

I didn't buy stainless bolts to be trick I bought them cause they last and don't rust and don't sieze up. But in some places they can be it seems, a pain in the butt. That one bolt under the axles joint is the only one that is not easily accessible especially with a hex head. Have to loosen axle bracket up not a huge deal.
Maybe a few more pounds of torque on it are all that is needed.

Not sure why the rtv didn't work ,I did manage to maybe smear it a bit putting it on there.
Should have made some guide studs.But it did seal everywhere else course that dont' matter have to take it off again anyway it seems if retorque on that bolt don't work. The pan is brand new slowboy improved design.Thicker than stock.

There is chance its also above the oil pan I can see it dripping but not clear enough to be sure its oil pan flange or something else.

And while this may seem like a simple enough thing to fix not everything always works out as it should.

If I was rich would take it in and hand it over. I am not rich and did most all the work on my 97 myself. Of course I did get some things like bottom end assembled.

Aside from this annoying little oil leak the car is running good, is fast as f##k. But its hard to get more break in miles on it when it gets oil on the axle and then shoots it all over the place.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200481
July 10, 2006 12:38 am UTC
July 10, 2006 12:38 am UTC
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Regina
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Ryan Herperger Offline
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Is it a good idea to be driving it around while you have an unknown oil leak someplace?

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200482
July 10, 2006 12:48 am UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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I check the oil all the time and am not driving it around all over the place. Simply put 20 miles on it here and there trying to finish up my 500 mile break in.It was losing a quart every couple days before the pan resealing. Now its not leaving huge oil puddles so guess it might lose a quart a week maybe .Still unacceptable of course.


The leak is not massive but it seems worse than it is due to that axle joint slinging it everywhere.

Its not like a balance shaft plug has come out or something like that. Or when oil filter pretty much spun off the 91 laser to to former owner using wrong filter.

I am stubborn and will figure it out/fix it and if the pan has to get done again then will do it again.

I never liked the idea of rtv instead of a gasket like all my other cars use. But the gasket was leaking everywhere this rtv may be leaking in just this one small spot. But it could also be something else leaking.

If you could see the area clearly it would be simple.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200483
July 10, 2006 02:24 am UTC
July 10, 2006 02:24 am UTC
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Regina
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Ryan Herperger Offline
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I don't want to come across as an ass, because I truly admire your car, and your wil to finish it, but what point is there in "finishing up" your 500 mile break in if the car is still having unknown problems?

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200484
July 10, 2006 02:50 am UTC
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Allan Brown Offline OP
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My only problem is a small oil leak! Its not engine threatening.Just annoying and smelly and makes a mess.

I want to break in the car so can up the boost to a fun level 15 to 20psi.

I was driving it here and there over last few weeks putting break in miles on it.
I have had some shakedown bugs of course with the new combo.I think most of them are worked out and behind me now.

I will get back on the car this week and try my best to figure out whats leaking and fix it.

Just depressing that did the oil pan and have this leak still.

I was in heaven this morning when thought had a leak free car. Now back in dsm hell.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200485
July 10, 2006 06:45 am UTC
July 10, 2006 06:45 am UTC
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Regina, SK
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Regina, SK
For what it's worth the 2 chevy 2.2l motors i've worked on for my wifes '99 cavalier didnt have an oil pan gasket from the factory either.

And yes other engines can crank walk, her's had 3/4 to a full inch of play on the crankshaft!!

Every bearing on the bottom end toast, and the crank scored up. Good thing it didnt die right half way between winnepeg and regina =\


I would really like to see this car sometime, i'm right across the street from the general hospital.


'90 Awd 5-speed R.I.P.
'92 Awd 5-speed 16g/fmic/etc
'07 civic Si stock DD
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200486
July 10, 2006 11:30 am UTC
July 10, 2006 11:30 am UTC
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Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Allan Brown  Offline OP
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I am sure you will see the car cruising around shortly.

I am going out this morning to take one last stab at simply tightening up the bolt on the pan under the leak. Just have to loosen up the axle bracket to access it.

With any luck it will be that simple.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200487
July 10, 2006 03:07 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 03:07 pm UTC
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Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Kelowna,BC
Ok up early ,loosened up axle bracket.Got to that last bolt.It was torqued to 5 ft lbs. I torqued it to 7 ft lbs.

Still leaking! Right on axle joint. Its a steady drip at idle.

Took car for a spin. Came home after 20km drive.
Put it in air, oil on inner axle joint,oil on inner axle boot, oil on oil pan under axle joint,oil even on short axle piece that goes into tranny. Oil all around near the axle joint and above even on the air compressor bottom side.
Can't see any leaks from valve cover above it.
Not sure where leaking cam seal would run they are of course new seals.

Still very puzzled. Does boost pressurize the oil pan and therefore a small leak at idle would be a bigger leak under boost?

And how can I get the engine to boost just sitting up on a hoist..use my two step in the dsmlink?
Will that put enough boost to show me more clearly leaks under boost?

It looks like the pan is coming off again .The worst thing is if could take off parts and run the car it would be easier to find this leak.
Can I take out the axle if drain the trans and run the car in neutral.It would help to not have that darn axle in the way and would change out the axle seal anyway it leaks when I loosen up the axle bracket not sure if that is normal.
Also there is fluid on the short axle not sure how some oil leak above the axle joint could leak onto the short axle which is basically uphill.

Still also hard to tell if some of the short axle fluid is syncromesh or oil. I have fresh oil and sycromesh in there. I assume sycromesh is clear also. It would be simple if it was red.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200488
July 10, 2006 03:35 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 03:35 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:
Still also hard to tell if some of the short axle fluid is syncromesh or oil. I have fresh oil and sycromesh in there. I assume sycromesh is clear also. It would be simple if it was red.
Smell it.
They are most definitely distinct.

Have you cleaned very well under there and gone for a drive?
Why don't you use some of that die to pinpoint the leak?


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200489
July 10, 2006 03:52 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 03:52 pm UTC
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Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Allan Brown  Offline OP
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Kelowna,BC
I think will try to get the die. I am sure have
oil leak either at that oil pan flange or above.

I may simultaneously have axle seal leak.
I can't see how oil dripping onto the axle joint would get higher up the short axle between that joint and the tranny.

But the leaking above the axle is definitely engine oil.

So the question is from where..pan or something else?

Like said does pan get pressurized under boost.
Seems after a drive I have lots of oil under there. More than just sitting at idle but the axle with the oil on it is spinning and throwing it around.

So who sells the oil die and where is good place to buy a cheap blacklight?


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200490
July 10, 2006 04:09 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 04:09 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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If your crankcase pressure is high while boosting, you may have a faulty PCV valve.
Blow-by would cause it too. Do a COLD compression test.


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200491
July 10, 2006 07:36 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 07:36 pm UTC
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Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Allan Brown  Offline OP
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Kelowna,BC
Rob I don't have a pcv valve. Straight thru into catch can setup.

Also its not blowby.Its a new engine.I am not doing a compression test yet.Maybe after a few more hundred miles to insure the rings have seated.

The engine blows no blue smoke or white smoke.
Its also not blowing it out the turbo like it has in the past when had blocked crankcase ventilation.
The exhaust is 100% oil smoke free. This is a leak nothing more.
The big question is where..the pan to block seal even though that as just done or something above it but valve cover seems dry,and its not easy to get to that corner of the engine without ripping off intake and other stuff. These engines are packed in there tight.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200492
July 10, 2006 07:53 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 07:53 pm UTC
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Rob Strelecki Offline

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You can have blow-by without sending any smoke out the exhaust.

You could pressurize the crank case enough to cause your leaks and nothing more.
Especially with a disabled PCV / breather system, the oil may not have a route into the combustion chamber but it can easily get out of the pan!
Is there anything in the catch can?

If the motor is not yet broken in then YOU DO HAVE BLOW BY. Think about it... The whole point of breaking it in is to get the rings to seal.

Quote
Originally posted by Allan Brounstein:
Also its not blowby.Its a new engine.I am not doing a compression test yet.Maybe after a few more hundred miles to insure the rings have seated.
It really is contradictory nonsense if you think about it ponder


1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD
13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200493
July 10, 2006 08:02 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 08:02 pm UTC
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Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Ok Rob that makes some sense.Still I can see some dripping in the one spot. Nothing anywhere else.

I can't even be sure it drips out faster under boost kinda hard to get under the car while its boosting to look.

So I would think when have next to nothing in the catch can the rings have seated pretty much.

I have no idea how many miles the rings take to seat .I am running wiseco pistons with their rings.

I did a bunch of 30 to 70mph runs a dozen or so at beginning of break in and driving it reasonable now not to redline and not full boost at wot. Again mostly to be nice to the clutch.
I still vary my speeds a lot too.

Like I said if that leak was anywhere at all else it would be easy to figure out. Its all hidden where its happening.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200494
July 10, 2006 08:29 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 08:29 pm UTC
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Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza Offline
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I don't think it should be too hard to figure out where it is leaking from. Try to look at the highest point on the engine where the oil is originating from.
You say there is oil all over the driver side axle. Did you look at the back of the block to see if there is oil there as well.
One thing I can think of back there is the bolt that goes into the block that is used to check if the balance shafts are in phase. Check to see if it is there and tight.


1G DSM: 1000+ AWHP, 9.2@162.83 MPH
Evo X: 746 AWHP, XR9569S pump gas
www.dynotuneracing.com



Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200495
July 10, 2006 08:42 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 08:42 pm UTC
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Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Allan Brown  Offline OP
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The area back there by that plug seems to be dry. There is a bolt in there for sure tight and also have bolt where intake bracket went.
I only saw bottom of air conditioning compressor was oily but that might have been thrown on there.
I can't see the highest spot as can't really get my hands in there. Have intake, afpr welded on rail,etc.etc. its very tight on that corner.

It would be easy if you had some room where the leak was and if it wasn't hidden behind the axle joint.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200496
July 10, 2006 08:50 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 08:50 pm UTC
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Toronto
Mike Vince Offline
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Can you not go under the car, whipe everthing clean, start the car and jump back underneath to see where the drip is starting from??


2002 Acura RSX Type S
Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200497
July 10, 2006 10:13 pm UTC
July 10, 2006 10:13 pm UTC
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Posts: 2,235
Kelowna,BC
Allan Brown Offline OP
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Allan Brown  Offline OP
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Kelowna,BC
Wish it was that easy. It appears to be coming from right above the axle joint.But like said many times its not that easy to see it or it would be simple.

I am taking the car to an overhead hoist tonite which should be much easier than trying to fix it on the ground.


1997 TALON AWD ,fully built 2.4,FP3065.

99TAWS6 427 Twin turbo,91 TALON race car,08 Z06.

Re: Oil pan and ultra gray question... #200498
July 11, 2006 10:26 am UTC
July 11, 2006 10:26 am UTC
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Posts: 579
Edmonton, Alberta
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Darin Chalifoux Offline
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Edmonton, Alberta
Ok, trying to sift through these posts got me confused. I was under the impression that the leak was dripping down onto the driver side shaft just coming out of the tranny, and yes, that would/could be your rear main housing. Conversely, if it's leaking in the front of the engine, it could just as easily be the front case leaking as well.


1992 Talon AWD Auto
1993 Dodge Colt
1997 Ram 1500 4x4 360cid
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