Quick question, has anyone removed their balance shafts on their NT (or turbo for that matter). Is there a LARGE noticeable difference in power? Is there a LARGE noticeable difference in vibrations? I'm getting my timingbelt replaced at Magnus and they said for another 300.00 they'll remove the balance shafts (and I hope balance the engine as well, but I don't know.) Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike
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'90 Laser Rs
Lots Boom, no Vrooooomm.

Hello.

I got a 1G 2.0L NT. I replaced the Timing Belt, Head Gasket, put on a set of Headers, rebuild the head and did some mild port and polish last spring. I found the front Balance Shaft Belt broken while removing the old timing belt. Mmmm, some lucky it did not take the main TBelt. Anyway I did reinstall a new Front B Shaft Belt when I put everything back togeter.

I tought that I would of seen a power gain but was a little desapointed to see that no extra power was gained by all this work. Also noted that I had no more High Frequency Vibration at 4500 to 6000 RPM. Guess the B Belt smooted thing out but chewed up the few ponies that could of potentionnaly been created by those few mild mods.

I'd say go for it. I'm pretty sure you should not need to have the engine balanced. I don't know personnaly Magnus but I think they are probably the best DSM shop around from what I've heard.

I'm planing to rebuild a bottom end in a near future and I'll be removing both Shafts. I'm not going to have it balanced because I don't think it's worth it for the use and the money I want to pump into the ride.

Now I would probably "consider" having an engine balanced if I'd have a Turbo model engine rebuild and I would have the intention to put the ride on the track and be realy serious about . (Again I use the word consider)

One last thing to remember; Lots of engine don't have balance shafts. Mitsu engeneer probably decided to put these on our beautiful engine to keep waranty repair cost down. Some vibration can be felt if one of the shaft is out of sync or like in my case; one is inoperative. Removing both shaft might create some unoticeable (from the driver seat) vibration but I don't think they would create much of a danger for the healt of the power plant.

Some ppls have removed both shafts and have noticed up to 30 HP gain (Seat of the pants) and have no regrets about it. They will probably give you more feedback about it. I know they convinced me.

Hope this helps.

Ghislain. http://www.lks.net/~ghislisa/


[This message has been edited by Ghislain Goudreau (edited July 03, 2000).]

Ghislain,

Thanks, you've been a lot of help lately (emails) seeing as there aren't that many of us NT owners who do things to make it faster I think I'm going to check my timing belts tonight and see if I can see any wear on them. A friend of mine who has a '86 MR2 had his timing belt replaced after an unfortunate incident (6800 RPM, Shift, Dead!) He said he noticed a big improvement in power when they were replaced... I'm hoping thats the case with mine because I think I've decided that is what I'm going to do next with my car (T-Belt and Balance Shaft Removal) Anyone else on this topic?

Mike Vince
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'90 Laser NT
Lotsa Boom, No Vroooomm.

Many people have removed their balance shafts and very few have had any regrets. The principal disadvantage is that you'll get a little more vibration (felt in the steering wheel, seat of the pants, etc). The general consensus is that removing the shafts will not affect the balance of the crankshaft or other internal components.

Probably the main advantage is that with the removal of the b.shafts there is no longer any chance that the small b.shaft belt will break and take the main timing belt with it (apparently, a relatively common problem). A secondary advantage is a small increase in HP (something like 5-10).

The above information should apply equally to turbos and non-turbos.

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90 Talon TSi FWD
90 Talon TSi AWD

Hey Mike,
I got a 92' Talon NT and am about to remove the b-shafts myself. I dont know if you are the do it your selfer but if you are, here is a site that I hope will help you out. www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/balanceshaft.html
Hope this helps. :


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Need For Speed

I did the removal on my 91 2.0 NT and I'm very happy with the results. One thing that really helped was to raise my base idle to 950 instead of 750 rpms. At 750 the dash rattled a bit but smooth as can be at 950.

I am going to get it done in two weeks, I am having the timingbelts changed so I mite as well do the balance shafts. I don't mind a little bit more vibration... As long as it doesn't rattle my teeth off
Aaron: thanks for the site, I am a DIYer but I don't think that is quite in my league, it looks like something I would rather pay a professional who has done it before to do it
Michael: Did you notice a large difference in power? How much did it cost you (or did you do it yourself?)

Another question is, does changing the timing belt make a difference in power at all, maybe the timing gets changed throughout the coarse of 100,000 Km?

Thanks

Mike Vince
Lots a Boom, No Vrrooomm.

Another thing you'll notice with the B.S. removal, is engine response. Will less rotating mass... it'll rev (and accelerate the car) quicker.

As a side note, if one shaft was not turning (because of broken belt), then you would get half of the up/down balancing... but you would ADD a front/back vibration that normally gets canceled by the other shaft. So, both shafts or no shafts, would be better (smoother?) than only running one shaft.

I'm thinking of doing this with the next engine.. .but am still on the fence. I like a smooth engine.

I did all the work myself. Engine response is fantastic, I did notice a difference but can't begin to give you an estimate for HP since I've done so many other things to my car as well.

My car is also 400 lbs lighter than stock now so any engine gain is appreciated more on my car than a stock car.

Total cost for me to do the removal was about $5 for the JB Weld. (I already had a block plug in my toolbox so I saved the $2 for that )

Mike, your question: will changing the main timing belt increase your power at all? Well, if it does, there would have to have been something dreadfully wrong with your old belt. The only way changing your t-belt could improve power, is if your timing was out with your old belt. The timing belt change is strictly a maintenance procedure. The balance shaft removal is another story.

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90 Talon TSi FWD
90 Talon TSi AWD

That's what I figured Paul, I was just guessing that over 100kKm that the timing would be a bit off. A friend of mine who has a 86 MR2 was driving down a nice long and winding road, shifted at 6800 RPM, DEAD Luckly the engine doesn't expload on that model! When he had the belt replaced he noticed a fair difference in power. Anywho, I guess that will be my next venture into more power!!

I was thinking about getting headers (seeing as the entire rest of the exaust is done) but I am not prepared yet to pay 400.00 US for Archer Headers... I don't know about Pacesetter, I just don't like the brand all that much... Who knows!

Mike Vince
Lots a Boom, No Vrrooom

I am looking to do the BS removal my self, but am slightly unsure. By doing the removal, will this mod will it cause premature engin wear?

I was talking to a friend who has rebuilt his engin (even thought a v-8) 9 times, adding something every time. Now he said that he didn't know much about our engin type, but that if the engin was using the ballancing shafts, then they are their for a reason. He cautioned me that by removing them could cause premature engin failur.

Could someone please put my worries to rest.

I will do anything to get extra power, but I cant afford a third engin.

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Need For Speed

Balance shaft removal causes no premature wear. You just have to put up with a little insy bitty vibration once in a while. The price you pay for doing an almost free mod. It's equivalent to putting in performance cams in my opinion.

BTW Mike, you can set/correct your timing without changing your timing belt. If your timing is off this can definitely decrease your power (and affect driveability,etc.). Don't know if you have a Service Manual but it explains the procedure (so does the Haynes Manual). If you don't want to do it yourself, just about any garage can do it. But, you mentioned you're getting your t-belt done, so no need. But for future reference . . .

There really isn't ever a reason for the timing to be off from where it was set. If it is I would be tearing that timing belt off and replacing it right away.