Engine Swap in a 420a - Club DSM Canada

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#205360 - March 25, 2006 03:26 pm EST Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	Hey, I have a 96 ESI Talon..and I talked to a guy at a shop for the best way to get lots of horsepower and speed.. and he told me that I could take the engine out of a turbo neon, im guessing the Neon SRT-4 and stick it in to replace my 420a. Has anyone done this? or know if it could actually work? _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205361 - March 25, 2006 03:45 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Rob Strelecki Rob Strelecki morum foderator Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands Registered: April 19, 2002 Posts: 11993 Loc: Loc: Loc:	Does the guy at the shop also assume you have a thick wad burning through your pocket? With enough money, anything can be accomplished. This one is a waste of money. Period. Better to swap everything to a turbo DSM and go from there. Or if you're really stuck on keeping the car, throw a turbo kit on your engine - however this would probably lead to an engine rebuild sooner or later, when you want more go. _________________________ 1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD 13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
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#205362 - March 25, 2006 03:53 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	Yeah I have to keep the car.. So the best thing would be an engine rebuild then putting a turbo kit together? _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205363 - March 26, 2006 02:47 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nathan Welch Nathan Welch Insane Member Registered: February 10, 2003 Posts: 2472 Loc: London/Nomad	The Hahn has good turbo kits for the 420a or you could build one yourself. It is pretty cheap and I think if you junkyarded it you could do it for less than 1000. The most expensive piece might well be the FMU. I was considering getting an avenger and doing the same thing. Run 6-7 psi and you shouldent have to worry about a rebuild for a while. 420a engines are cheap anyways :p
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#205364 - March 27, 2006 10:27 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Randy Kuiperij Randy Kuiperij Serious Member Registered: August 02, 2004 Posts: 849 Loc: Lindsay Ontario	I really want to see someone swap the 2.4L SRT-4 motor into a Talon. Those motors make some serious horsepower too. I know, because I was beat by a SRT-4 on the street. $\:\($ But I realize it would be very expensive and probably not very practical. _________________________ Black ES--sold and parted RS-T AWD--smashed and parted TSI AWD--13.7s @ 102mph next project...
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#205365 - March 27, 2006 03:12 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	The guy at the shop I go to said he saw it done twice before at some meet and also at a car show. But I mean, if I find a turbo neon who got rear-ended and doesnt have the money to fix it..so the whole front end is fine. Then i could get it cheap, ya know? _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205366 - March 27, 2006 03:42 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Rob Strelecki Rob Strelecki morum foderator Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands Registered: April 19, 2002 Posts: 11993 Loc: Loc: Loc:	^^^ I see where you're coming from - but at the same time, "cheap" is a relative term. The labour bill would still be huge. It could be a little better if they've done this swap before, but in the end this is the kind of thing where you will either spend big or do the work yourself - more than likely both. _________________________ 1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD 13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
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#205367 - March 27, 2006 04:03 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Sean Raymer Sean Raymer Regular Member Registered: August 27, 2002 Posts: 161 Loc: Scarborough	Just boost the 420a it'll make half decent power @ 8-9psi on stock internals/injectors and last alittle while, build and boost it to surprise some others on the street lol _________________________ Sean 95 Dodge Avenger 420A 5spd -WHAT MODS OFFICER? IT's A DODGE- PICS & MOD LIST www.SpoolnU.com -ALPHA. SIGMA. BOOST.-
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#205368 - March 27, 2006 07:27 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Amin Ahmadi Amin Ahmadi Insane Member Registered: July 17, 2003 Posts: 3162 Loc: Hamilton-GTA	Quote: Originally posted by Mike Petro: The guy at the shop I go to said he saw it done twice before at some meet and also at a car show. But I mean, if I find a turbo neon who got rear-ended and doesnt have the money to fix it..so the whole front end is fine. Then i could get it cheap, ya know? the car you described costs as much as a Turbo 2G these days. and then the tranplant cost. could it be done, YES, would it cost as much as your car, VERY likely. _________________________ www.solarcar.mcmaster.ca
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#205369 - March 27, 2006 08:08 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nathan Welch Nathan Welch Insane Member Registered: February 10, 2003 Posts: 2472 Loc: London/Nomad	ALL YOU REALLY that you cant make or get for cheap is the exhaust manifold for the 420a and a FMU. The rest is piping and exhaust. -intercooler piping -dsm intercooler -dsm bov -3inch exhaust -14b or t3/t4 -adaptor plate -fuelpump if wanting extra reasurance Just do it! 1000$ and you can get all the parts.
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#205370 - March 27, 2006 08:57 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
vlad moya vlad moya Member Registered: February 01, 2002 Posts: 90 Loc: steel city	3 options for your 420a mike: 1. you can have it cheap and fast, but it wont be good 2. you can have it cheap and good, but it wont be fast 3. you can have it good and fast, but it wont be cheap. chose wisely. there are a handful of us that have been there. imo, piecing out a kit is not the proper way to go. better to get new parts, and if possible, get a kit. my car was in the shop so many times last summer getting extra "stuff" done!
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#205371 - March 27, 2006 11:52 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Jaime Loo Jaime Loo Serious Member Registered: September 23, 2004 Posts: 434 Loc: GTA	Hey Mike, you have your power options. If I was you, I would keep sexy ESI stock and clean. You can put SRT4/420 upgrade power in it, but: - it's still fwd, - lot of downtime if its your only car, - 4g63 have more power supports (or so it appears) - turbo kits at 8psi puts in competition with mildly upgraded civics/neons/cavaliers, and you will be toast against gti/beetles/saabs and many family v6/8 cars For much cheaper, get a awd turbo AND keep the ESI for a more reliable means of transportation - while upgrading your 4g63 (or even better, build one from scratch while driving the ESi). Faster is good until you realize what's out on the roads: lots of newer family cars/trucks come with lots of torque and hp. _________________________ 95 TSI AWD - http://www.motorforce.ca
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#205372 - March 28, 2006 10:50 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	I already have another car. This car was a grad gift from my parents Thanks for all the input, wont be doing any work till next year when I can afford it but I just wanted to know what you guys thought I should do _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205373 - March 29, 2006 01:15 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nick Boers Nick Boers Insane Member Registered: July 01, 2002 Posts: 2660 Loc: Isfahan, Iran	You can find on ebay quite often a twin turbo 6A12 engine with AWD tranny from a galant. Sometimes it's the older ones with the engine on the drivers side and sometimes it's got the engine on the passenger side. Stick that in there!! If you don't feel like making it AWD, then just lock the center diff and leave it fwd. The 6A12 is a 2.5L V6. Sometimes can also find the 6A11, a 2.0L. Or drop in an EVOIV+ engine/tranny. Or, cut the engine mounts off the frame and drop in a DSM 4G63. Possiblities are limitless. Make it RWD with a longitudinally mounted 4G63. Want more ideas? $\:\)$
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#205374 - March 29, 2006 03:05 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Sean Raymer Sean Raymer Regular Member Registered: August 27, 2002 Posts: 161 Loc: Scarborough	best idea yet... sell it and buy a TSI/GSX or SRT-4 lol _________________________ Sean 95 Dodge Avenger 420A 5spd -WHAT MODS OFFICER? IT's A DODGE- PICS & MOD LIST www.SpoolnU.com -ALPHA. SIGMA. BOOST.-
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#205375 - March 29, 2006 11:12 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Rob Strelecki Rob Strelecki morum foderator Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands Registered: April 19, 2002 Posts: 11993 Loc: Loc: Loc:	I love how ideaman makes it sound soooo easy _________________________ 1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD 13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
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#205376 - March 29, 2006 12:26 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nick Boers Nick Boers Insane Member Registered: July 01, 2002 Posts: 2660 Loc: Isfahan, Iran	Quote: Originally posted by Rob Strelecki: *And I bet he's sitting there like "what man, what do you mean, it really IS that easy".* But it is!! It really is!!
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#205377 - March 29, 2006 08:21 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	Sean, I cant sell my car. I've put to much work into it to make it look how it does. I just completed the auto to manual swap a few days ago _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205378 - March 29, 2006 09:21 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Andy McLeod Andy McLeod Serious Member Registered: June 16, 2004 Posts: 312 Loc: London	It seems the problem with the ESI is you can't make it go fast for less then a comparable TSI, or GST. You could turbo the 420A but then you're pretty close to maxing out that engine without tearing it apart. Even if you went with forged internals you would be (in my opinion) wasting your money on some turbocharged hybrid neon engine that just now after thousands of dollars on par with a stock TSI. That leaves an engine swap...the 4G63 engine swap is very possible, but when you're done you still have spent way too much money on a stock TSI. Nicks 2.5L TT V6 idea sounds like much more fun you should just do that. $\:\)$ _________________________ 97 Talon TSI AWD
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#205379 - March 29, 2006 10:22 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Duarte Mike Duarte Serious Member Registered: February 24, 2001 Posts: 211 Loc: cambridge, ont.	I'm not saying this is a good idea but here is an Esi 16 psi on a stock motor 12.4 at 108mph http://videos.streetfire.net/video/983DAF82-2415-49EE-9560-750DA52FF4C7.htm
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#205380 - March 29, 2006 10:25 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Duarte Mike Duarte Serious Member Registered: February 24, 2001 Posts: 211 Loc: cambridge, ont.	Here's another one. Built block with an SC61 running 12.5 http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=5795E709-46A0-46A9-AB45-203C70044826&kw=4&p=12
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#205381 - March 29, 2006 10:55 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	The 6A12 is out of an avenger right? what do you think the approx cost/downtime will be for that _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205382 - March 29, 2006 11:13 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Murtaza Saadat Murtaza Saadat Serious Member Registered: June 23, 2005 Posts: 1654 Loc: London Ontario	i dont know... i read a bit before i got my car on an esi (because i almost bought one until i found my car) and found that they are possible to get as fast/ faster than 4g63's.... it just is harder to start. but how much of what i read cuold be true? i mean it was on the internet after all $;\)$
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#205383 - March 29, 2006 11:26 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nick Boers Nick Boers Insane Member Registered: July 01, 2002 Posts: 2660 Loc: Isfahan, Iran	Quote: Originally posted by Mike Petro: The 6A12 is out of an avenger right? what do you think the approx cost/downtime will be for that No, the Avengers have the 6G73, a 2.5L version of the 6G72 in the 3G eclipse. The 6A series were never sold in North America to my knowledge. The block is smaller than the 6G. Search ebay for 6A12, there were three last night when i looked.
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#205384 - March 30, 2006 09:26 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	So...you're saying...I can swap my 420a for the engine from the brand new eclipse? woah..has anyone done it? _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205385 - March 30, 2006 12:44 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Adam Grenon Adam Grenon Insane Member Registered: July 17, 2003 Posts: 2543 Loc: Colborne	Is the 6a12 not out of the 3000gt and stealths? I just realized I am an idiot the 12 in the engine code stands for 2.0L and the stealths and 3000gt's had a 3.0 TT _________________________ 1992 - Talon FWD-Turbo. Cooked rings and ECU 1992 - Talon Tsi AWD being overhauled
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#205386 - March 31, 2006 07:16 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Kevin Jenkins Kevin Jenkins Serious Member Registered: February 14, 2006 Posts: 996 Loc: Cobourg, ON	It's hard to let go of a car you've put lots of time and coin into...I still say cut your losses and just buy a tsi...you'll have way more fun _________________________ '97 Talon TSi AWD '92 Talon T/NT Beater, gets me to work and back every day
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#205387 - April 01, 2006 05:46 am EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nick Boers Nick Boers Insane Member Registered: July 01, 2002 Posts: 2660 Loc: Isfahan, Iran	Adam, i aid the 6A series was never sold in North America. I don't think there's even a 3.0L 6A, the block is too small. 6A's were used in Galants and FTOs, and others. The 3000GT is a 6G72. The new eclipse engine may fit. Not sure if the hoodline is higher on them than a DSM though.
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#205388 - April 01, 2006 04:38 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Sean Raymer Sean Raymer Regular Member Registered: August 27, 2002 Posts: 161 Loc: Scarborough	Guys in the states are swapping 3.0L and 3.5L engines into Avengers with no problems and boosting them, but as Nick stated hood clearance and oilpan clearance may be issues with 2G DSM's as well as engine mounts and a complete rewiring of electronics. Plus why would you wanna swap anything in place of your 420a? I thought you just did a tranny swap to Manual? What makes you think that the manual tranny will work with any engine that you swap in? I ask that you please go to www.2gnt.com or www.aseclub.net and do a search or two, engine swaps have been discussed in rediculous detail there... _________________________ Sean 95 Dodge Avenger 420A 5spd -WHAT MODS OFFICER? IT's A DODGE- PICS & MOD LIST www.SpoolnU.com -ALPHA. SIGMA. BOOST.-
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#205389 - April 01, 2006 10:33 pm EST Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Petro Mike Petro Serious Member Registered: May 29, 2005 Posts: 1131 Loc: Mississauga, Ont	I have been checking out 2gnt, but its hard to find cuz their forums arnt as organized as this one lol _________________________ '97 Eclipse Spyder GST - Summer '98 Honda Civic Hatch - Winter '91 Plymouth Laser Turbo - FOR SALE
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#205390 - April 03, 2006 10:10 am EDT Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Nick Boers Nick Boers Insane Member Registered: July 01, 2002 Posts: 2660 Loc: Isfahan, Iran	Quote: Originally posted by Sean Raymer: Guys in the states are swapping 3.0L and 3.5L engines into Avengers with no problems and boosting them i knew that, but forgot when i made the post. It'll fit. Mounts will line up too.
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#205391 - April 03, 2006 12:29 pm EDT Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Sean Raymer Sean Raymer Regular Member Registered: August 27, 2002 Posts: 161 Loc: Scarborough	Quote: Originally posted by Mike Petro: I have been checking out 2gnt, but its hard to find cuz their forums arnt as organized as this one lol I just did a search on their forums for "engine swap" the first 5-10 posts explained everything you asked previously. _________________________ Sean 95 Dodge Avenger 420A 5spd -WHAT MODS OFFICER? IT's A DODGE- PICS & MOD LIST www.SpoolnU.com -ALPHA. SIGMA. BOOST.-
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#205392 - April 04, 2006 11:05 pm EDT Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Luke Sturgeon Luke Sturgeon Serious Member Registered: January 01, 2005 Posts: 546 Loc: Ontario	Hey Mike Petro, you can swap the 2.4L bottom end into the Talon, it's really not that hard of a job.... pull the motor put your head on the SRT4 block stick it back in your car, and call it a day build a cheapo $1000 turbo kit from stock TSI parts and run 18PSI. LOL I was doing it.... you can also do it even CHEAPER Goto the junker Find a Cirrus or something with the 2.4L Motor in it, PT Cruiser etc... you can pick these up for like $400, goto Chrysler get a 2.4L Turbo Piston and Rod for $129 each, stick them in the 2.4L you got from the junker, and then stick the top end from your ESI on the bottom end of the 2.4L Makes for GREAT power, you can have as much or more power then an SRT-4... it's really not even that hard of a swap. You can't use the turbo from the SRT-4 because manifold is built into the turbo and it goes off the back side... reason for swapping the heads, you can actually use the 2.4L Turbo Valve Cover if you want. I am pretty sure it bolts up. It's the same deal when swapping the 2.4L into a 1g neon with a SOHC or DOHC motor. But youd on't have to change heads. Anyway if you need more info PM me I can send you the right people ttyl. _________________________ 1991 Eagle Talon TSi and thats all you need to know.
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#205393 - April 05, 2006 02:27 pm EDT Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Mike Duarte Mike Duarte Serious Member Registered: February 24, 2001 Posts: 211 Loc: cambridge, ont.	There's a lot more to the 2.4 swap than that.
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#205394 - April 05, 2006 02:32 pm EDT Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Rob Strelecki Rob Strelecki morum foderator Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands Registered: April 19, 2002 Posts: 11993 Loc: Loc: Loc:	Yeah what about fuel control and all the other turbo bits & pieces... Surely the DSM parts are far from plug & play. I hear what you're saying re. the 2.4 being pretty simple, but that's only a small piece of the puzzle. _________________________ 1993 Eagle Talon TSi FWD 13.8 @ 106 :::: 14.1 @ 117
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#205395 - April 05, 2006 06:33 pm EDT Re: Engine Swap in a 420a
Sean Raymer Sean Raymer Regular Member Registered: August 27, 2002 Posts: 161 Loc: Scarborough	Find and talk with James (Schoeby) or Alain (Alain95) they have both done the 2.4L conversion. James has it detailed on his website: http://schoeby.com/information.html _________________________ Sean 95 Dodge Avenger 420A 5spd -WHAT MODS OFFICER? IT's A DODGE- PICS & MOD LIST www.SpoolnU.com -ALPHA. SIGMA. BOOST.-
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