Buschur Vs Magnus
#252946
January 12, 2008 04:53 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 04:53 pm UTC
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Ryan Laliberte
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Well, it seems that Dave B has called out Magnus on their intake manifolds. You don't need an account to read it, so see for yourselves. http://www.buschurforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20657
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: miguel barros]
#252965
January 12, 2008 08:29 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 08:29 pm UTC
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Jeff Mitchell
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That thread is pretty one sided, which isn't surprising since it's in the Buschur forums. Note that the discussion is about the EVO manifold, which is different than the DSM manifold. The Magnus DSM manifold and a bunch of others were test way back, and this sums up the test nicely: The first thing we notice is that all of the aftermarket manifolds spool up quicker than the stock manifold. However the stock manifold appears to out perform all of the aftermarket manifolds in the mid range. All of the aftermarket manifolds out perform the stock manifold in the upper ranges. In looking at the chart, it is easy to see that where the stock manifold flattens out (at around 6600 rpm's), the aftermarket manifolds are still climbing. Had the test been run to a higher rpm limit, the differences would have been even more pronounced. At the very top end of the chart, all but two of the manifolds have begun to flatten out. The BJ and Magnus manifolds are still increasing.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Jeff Mitchell]
#252966
January 12, 2008 08:38 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 08:38 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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OP
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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However, it is funny that the two fastest DSMs do not run Magnus intakes, especially the one who is "sponsored" by Magnus.
What does that say?
And it's not just Buschur, but AMS says the same thing. 4 of the biggest players in the DSM world (Rau, Buschur, AMS, Shep) don't run Magnus intakes. Obviously AMS is going to run their own.
I'll bet dollars to donuts that if Marco changed his IM to an AMS or JMFAB intake, he'd see more numbers. How many guys do you know who have a JMF Intake or AMS Intake that has cracked?
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Ryan Laliberte]
#252968
January 12, 2008 08:54 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 08:54 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Chris Mckee
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So Ryan im guessing your the one who brought my name up on Buschur's forum. Anyways, until the testing is done im not saying a thing. I think everyone should do a shoot out of all the manifolds.
Magnus can test theirs VS everyone elses on the same car. Buschur can do the same. If this difference is in tuning maybe we will see different numbers?
Ive also seen Magnus intakes crack, but it was always the really old ones that the welds were polished therefore making them weaker. I have never seen a newer one crack on its own. Ive seen them break from nitros backfires and other engine disasters. But thats it.
I guess when it comes down to it the proof will be in the pudding. Im not jumping on a shop bashing bandwagon until the testing is complete. Which I feel is more then fair. I mean, after all, Marco runs one of his intake, and who can complain about 1000whp and 8's?
As for Brent not using the Magnus intake, well, he has had that one for quite some time and it must work. So why change something that works? Magnus builds the motors. I dont even know where that intake manifold came from?
All I know is I have had great luck and very good performance gains from the intakes. I do agree that it should be used on a bigger turbo aswell. Because the gains I noticed were midrange to 9000+ rpm. But I dont have any comparisons to make.
In all honesty im curious to see how this goes.
Last edited by Chris Mckee; January 12, 2008 08:57 pm UTC.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Chris Mckee]
#252973
January 12, 2008 09:28 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 09:28 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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I read that on the buschur forums as well. I mean, after all, Marco runs one of his intake, and who can complain about 1000whp and 8's?
That's what I was thinking as well. Doesn't mean if the top 4 aren't using his intake manifold, that there is something wrong with it. Brent doesn't have to be using tha Magnus intake, but the fact that Marco is building his motor, should give you an indication that he knows what he is doing.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Ryan Laliberte]
#252974
January 12, 2008 09:35 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 09:35 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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However, it is funny that the two fastest DSMs do not run Magnus intakes, especially the one who is "sponsored" by Magnus.
Sponsored by Magnus, cause he actually makes the power plant: the engine. IMO I'm sure Marco would have one of the fastest DSM's in the world, boasting that he is running an engine that he built rather than an intake manifold
Last edited by Reza Mirza; January 12, 2008 09:37 pm UTC.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#252975
January 12, 2008 09:38 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 09:38 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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OP
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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Oh, hey.. NOTHING wrong with a Magnus motor, they are great. I mean, if Rau can do 6's on it.. HELL YES!
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: KEVIN KIRELUK]
#252984
January 12, 2008 10:42 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 10:42 pm UTC
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Adam Grenon
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I think just because Ryan wanted to mention that he worked there. Other than that there was no point.
2012 - Lancer Ralliart Octane Blue 1991 - Talon Tsi AWD FP HTA 71 1992 - Talon Tsi AWD on hold
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Adam Grenon]
#252991
January 12, 2008 11:45 pm UTC
January 12, 2008 11:45 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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I think just because Ryan wanted to mention that he worked there. Other than that there was no point. Bingo. I wanted to see what Chris thought of this. Nothing against him or anything, I just wanted to maybe see if there was a solution or if he heard of this.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Ron Korolak]
#253060
January 13, 2008 05:36 pm UTC
January 13, 2008 05:36 pm UTC
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Tashko Sarakinov
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I don't know why people get upset about this stuff. People buy many products with performance gains claims yet companies that make the claims seldom provide any data. Everybody puts parts on their car without spending the money to do dyno pulls to see if it actually works. On the internet there are many people that just repeat what they read somewhere else and that information gets progpogated everywhere and there is never any data, be it dyno, strip, or race track. Alot of I know a guy, etc. I highly doubt the majority of products in the aftermarket are properly developed. I think it's more along the lines of get it designed so that it fits/functions and on the market. A good example is adjustable dampers. Many don't work properly but people still buy them. If you buy something without being provided data, it's your choice. Buyer beware. Claims of "xxxhp increase" without comparison dyno plots of a specific application is not data. I wouldn't even read too much into what Bushcur's results will be. If I bought a $600 manifold, I'd spend the $90 to go on the dyno to see if it worked ON MY CAR AND TUNE. If it didn't, I'd be calling the company that sold it too me because before I shelled out $600 I would've given them specific details of my setup and told them "if it doesn't work, I'll be brining it back". Then again, maybe I'm a fool that I already did a dyno pull to get a baseline for my car before adding "go fast" bits. I love the internet on slow Sundays!
Last edited by Tashko Sarakinov; January 13, 2008 05:44 pm UTC.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Tashko Sarakinov]
#253085
January 13, 2008 09:15 pm UTC
January 13, 2008 09:15 pm UTC
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Posts: 1,035 London
Chris Mckee
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I couldnt agree more. I don't know why people get upset about this stuff. People buy many products with performance gains claims yet companies that make the claims seldom provide any data. Everybody puts parts on their car without spending the money to do dyno pulls to see if it actually works. On the internet there are many people that just repeat what they read somewhere else and that information gets progpogated everywhere and there is never any data, be it dyno, strip, or race track. Alot of I know a guy, etc. I highly doubt the majority of products in the aftermarket are properly developed. I think it's more along the lines of get it designed so that it fits/functions and on the market. A good example is adjustable dampers. Many don't work properly but people still buy them. If you buy something without being provided data, it's your choice. Buyer beware. Claims of "xxxhp increase" without comparison dyno plots of a specific application is not data. I wouldn't even read too much into what Bushcur's results will be. If I bought a $600 manifold, I'd spend the $90 to go on the dyno to see if it worked ON MY CAR AND TUNE. If it didn't, I'd be calling the company that sold it too me because before I shelled out $600 I would've given them specific details of my setup and told them "if it doesn't work, I'll be brining it back". Then again, maybe I'm a fool that I already did a dyno pull to get a baseline for my car before adding "go fast" bits. I love the internet on slow Sundays!
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Colin Shainline]
#253089
January 13, 2008 10:13 pm UTC
January 13, 2008 10:13 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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Yes, but if you read further into the post, it states that Dave had tested it on a mildly modded EVO and Marco said it was designed for a big-ass turbo. So according to Dave B. it was plausible.
He then did some testing and found the intake wasn't working, by this time had 1 or 2 left. He advised customers who were buying them what he had found and yet the customer's still bought them.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Chris Mckee]
#253093
January 13, 2008 10:54 pm UTC
January 13, 2008 10:54 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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OP
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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And I posted that in Buschur's forum, to see some charts.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Ryan Laliberte]
#253096
January 13, 2008 11:18 pm UTC
January 13, 2008 11:18 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,410 cancun mexico(home) now in sca...
manuel salazar
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guys dont forget that the claim is only about evo manifolds no dsm's. Stock dsm manifolds are very restrictive and thats one of the reason why magnus manifolds work good, on the other hand evo manifold dont seem to have that much restriction, so i would think that i would be harder to improve in an alredy improved product from factory.
They say marco, used the same dsm disign on the evo manifold without any testing.I dont know if i believe that, but anyways unless you are planning to put and evo manifold in your dsm i wouldnt be worry.
I am sure marco and the guys would fix the problem, if there ever was one.;)
-Manuel
HTA35R powered, AEM EMS Managed DSM. Muellerized....Sold*.
PT6266 powered, AEM EMS Managed NSX.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: manuel salazar]
#253098
January 13, 2008 11:23 pm UTC
January 13, 2008 11:23 pm UTC
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Steve Kinnaird
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How about we let Dave and Marco figure this out. Or, just let it play out on the 6 or so UBBs it's already on?
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Chris Mckee]
#253136
January 14, 2008 12:57 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 12:57 pm UTC
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Adam Grenon
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I don't think they are a very complicated device, if they flow air they work. I bet you could make an intake out of coffee cans, throw on a big turbo and you are going to get big power.
2012 - Lancer Ralliart Octane Blue 1991 - Talon Tsi AWD FP HTA 71 1992 - Talon Tsi AWD on hold
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Chris Mckee]
#253137
January 14, 2008 01:07 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 01:07 pm UTC
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Posts: 7,944 Halifax, NS
Troy Jollimore
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That's because nobody takes the trouble to read everything. I wouldn't be surprised at these results. Everyone knows it's getting harder and harder to glean any extra power out of a factory engine. The engineers are doing a much better job of it while keeping costs down. As for people 'complaining', I remember when a mag did some dyno tests of the really big name intake/header combos for Civics a few years back, I think all but two of them lost power somewhere. And one of them had a TOTAL power loss. Worse than stock. Dave is a stand-up guy, so he would take Marco's word for things and stand by someone he considered a 'friend' or 'respected competitor'. Marco's attitude towards him seemed to suck a little. But in his defense, it sounds like he is trying to make things right as best he can. And can you blame him? If you were to make a part that's an extreme departure from the stock piece, and have those results justified... Wouldn't you expect it to have a similar effect on a similar motor? It sounds like Marco rating it at a 40hp gain was being conservative for him, and I'm surprised that it actually performs as 'poorly' as it does. Just have to go back to the flowbench and optimize it away from sheer volume, I guess. That's the path I've always taken. And I found Dave's mention of the 'reverse-header' intake design funny. I've had that idea for years, and just asked the question about it here in the forum a few weeks back...
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Troy Jollimore]
#253142
January 14, 2008 02:24 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 02:24 pm UTC
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Michael Certain
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That internet forum has managed to maintain the notoriety that most internet forums have: 99% stupidity, and the other 1% isn't posting.
As of my last reading, he hadn't posted the two dyno plots from before, and hadn't posted the new dyno's + logs (since witnesses mean little, it's the logs that matter). Marco too has an AWD dyno now, so he may be doing the same tests quietly. At this point, it's just pure speculation and people jumping on the "We hate Marco" bandwagon (which, as I understand it, isn't a small wagon). And, as mentioned before, anyone who lets one competitor tell them the other competitor sucks, can buy this gorgeous Florida waterfront property I have.
Rather than a strike at intellect, it appears that we wait for the results, and listen to the brilliance of a.) a guy who can't figure out why you taper a plenum, or b.) people who think "Because Rau doesn't run it, it CLEARLY MUST SUCK". Reminds me of those rednecks that used to decide whether to run Ford or Chevy by who won the NASCAR championships. Because a million dollar tubular frame Nascar and your rolled off the $9/hr line Chevy are spitting images of each other.
Next up? Marco and David duke it out for who has a better Facebook page. Story at quarter past who freaking cares.
Last edited by Michael Certain; January 14, 2008 02:26 pm UTC.
The moment a turbo spools, all your dreams are made possible.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Adam Grenon]
#253143
January 14, 2008 02:39 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 02:39 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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I bet you could make an intake out of coffee cans, throw on a big turbo and you are going to get big power.
Kind of sounds like this Black 91 DSM with a big turbo and coffee can strapped to the back of the engine. Only difference is, it is NOT making that much power.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#253144
January 14, 2008 02:43 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 02:43 pm UTC
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Troy Jollimore
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Okay, Michael. Why DO you taper a plenum? At least in a turbocharged car where the intake is going to be seeing a positive pressure?
This is where you hit a grey area. You get really smart guys on both sides of the argument. Neither side is really wrong, and neither is completely right.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Reza Mirza]
#253145
January 14, 2008 02:45 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 02:45 pm UTC
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Adam Grenon
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Well Reza perhaps its the TUNING. Haha.
I think I might go with a finely refined pringles can intake. Sour cream and onion!
Anyways I think all this drama is part of show biz, if there was no criticism there would be no competition.
2012 - Lancer Ralliart Octane Blue 1991 - Talon Tsi AWD FP HTA 71 1992 - Talon Tsi AWD on hold
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Adam Grenon]
#253147
January 14, 2008 02:54 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 02:54 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Yea tuning it is. I think the main difference is that your supposed to use a Tim Horton's can of coffee, not your regular ordinary bulk size no name brand coffee can.
Hmm, you got me thinking about the pringles sour cream n onion now. That's my favourite.
Last edited by Reza Mirza; January 14, 2008 02:58 pm UTC.
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Re: Buschur Vs Magnus
[Re: Troy Jollimore]
#253153
January 14, 2008 04:15 pm UTC
January 14, 2008 04:15 pm UTC
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Michael Certain
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Okay, Michael. Why DO you taper a plenum? At least in a turbocharged car where the intake is going to be seeing a positive pressure?
This is where you hit a grey area. You get really smart guys on both sides of the argument. Neither side is really wrong, and neither is completely right. I'd love to discuss it, Troy, although my initial comment was more to the effect that he (Rogue) rushed to insult Marco's design in any way possible, and was then disproved by his own friend. But, sure, Intakes are a gray area. For the most part, the argument is that less air molecules exist in the later stages of the plenum itself. There is little reason to suggest that a tapered IM plenum causes any problems, since Greddy makes one tapered, Magnus (1G/2G DSM still makes power), JM, etc etc. (counter: Venom, Mitsu E3 do not, and back and forth). It's those types of comments from people (and he said it 4 times, as if repetition and intelligence were synonymous) that made the thread 9 pages with little to show. As always, I await his dyno and logs. And Marco's response, should there be one.
The moment a turbo spools, all your dreams are made possible.
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