Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Greg Kelly]
#288261
January 09, 2009 03:24 am UTC
January 09, 2009 03:24 am UTC
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 707 ON
Bradley Woodward
Serious Member
|
Serious Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 707
ON
|
IF you can't find anyone else I have a machine shop at work and what I would refer to as "developing skills". An excellent quality hard anodize is about $100-$150 for a lot of anysize.
BOOST...Boo-Yah
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Bradley Woodward]
#288262
January 09, 2009 03:28 am UTC
January 09, 2009 03:28 am UTC
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 707 ON
Bradley Woodward
Serious Member
|
Serious Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 707
ON
|
could also help out with ordering the bearings and such
BOOST...Boo-Yah
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Greg Kelly]
#288263
January 09, 2009 03:29 am UTC
January 09, 2009 03:29 am UTC
|
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503
Trenton, On, Canada.
|
Mmmm, defenately interested. I'll try to keep reading this tread. Feel free to drop me a line if you guys come up to a final price.
I do not say that I'll comit but again will consider.
Ghislain.
Rouge!!!
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Ghislain Goudreau]
#288270
January 09, 2009 05:26 am UTC
January 09, 2009 05:26 am UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
I guess Ziggys interweb access is down for abit, but when I hear back, I'll update as far as the machining goes.
Did abit more checking around today & have seen the torrington bearings listed from ~$8-20 a piece & the helper springs are ~$20-22 a piece. Now I guess if your looking to do this with a minimum budget, I believe both these items can be deleted or added later down the road. The helper springs completely colapse once there weigth on them, they just prevent the main spring from moving around if you happen to see a condition where your taking all the weight off the corner, which I would assume wouldn't normally happen unless your doing some very aggressive road course driving. The torrington bearing go under the helper spring & just allow easier adjustment & prevent binding of the lower perch. If your not going to adjust these much, probably don't need them. I'm thinking their mainly there for the guys that are wanting to adjust the perches with the vehicle on the ground.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#288281
January 09, 2009 03:45 pm UTC
January 09, 2009 03:45 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
I was wrong with the torrington bearings, looks like their usually right around the $20 mark a piece. The ones that I came accross were just the bearing portion, you needed to buy the races seperatly, so they end up being close to the $20 mark. I have only been browsing through suspension sits, so maybe an industrial bearing place would have better prices? It appears from what I said above the torrington bearing also helps with binding under normal suspension travel, as the springs tend to twist under compression/rebound as well.
So for ballpark figures so far (US$) you'd be looking at:
Shocks: $600 Sleeves & perches: $200-280 Spherical bearings: $100 Hypercoils: $240 Helper springs: $90 Torrington bearing: $80 Machining & anodize: $?? (working on it)
Total ~$1310-1390 +Machining
Obviously if you already have the Konis, you have a good head start.
Edit: So this won't be a real "budget" setup, but I think it will give you a huge "bang for the buck" performance. From the research I've done, this setup will blow away any of the other of the shelf setups in this price range & even the ones that are priced a good deal higher. It seems as though alot of the big, expensive Japanese coilovers aren't all their cracked up to be.
Last edited by Daren Peacock; January 09, 2009 03:48 pm UTC.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Greg Kelly]
#288298
January 09, 2009 05:30 pm UTC
January 09, 2009 05:30 pm UTC
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
|
For some reason, I still can't SEND emails. I tried to send this info to Daren, but am currently unable to.
The upper and lower standoffs, a set of 8, to provide material and machine them, but WITHOUT plating them, would be $135. for the set of 8
The aluminum upper mount plates, again to provide material and machine them, but WITHOUT the anodizing, the set of four would be $225.
The grooves in the shocks themselves, I think the cost of shipping them to me and back again would make it too expensive. I would suggest guys get that done somewhere local..
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Scott McIntyre]
#288316
January 09, 2009 07:45 pm UTC
January 09, 2009 07:45 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
This setup is fairly similar to yours Scott but I don't think your's is really all that much more, "off-the-shelf". The only things required to be machined are just the standoffs (which are very basic) & I would imagine your running some sort of these? If so, what part of your setup did they come with or did you by them seperate? It looks like you may even be able to get custom standoff from one of the main Koni distributors in the US, for ~$6 each. For the RRE top plates, last time I heard they were a super long wait & by looking at their site, it looks like ther still a back ordered item & cost is $380US. I think I remember reading someone did use them with this type of setup but had to mod them abit? So you could always go that route as well.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#288319
January 09, 2009 08:03 pm UTC
January 09, 2009 08:03 pm UTC
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
|
$6. each for the standoffs would be about right if someone is making them by the thousands. The top plates, I am not surprised some places are charging that much. I found material cost alone for the four pieces to be over $60., so at $225., and for the amount of time I would have to spend, I am really not charging much....but I would be a lot happier NOT making them, LOL.
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#288500
January 11, 2009 11:06 pm UTC
January 11, 2009 11:06 pm UTC
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
|
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
|
I'd be interested in this as well. I'm looking for a long-lasting well performing adjustable setup.
I'm in.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Ryan Laliberte]
#288555
January 12, 2009 08:18 pm UTC
January 12, 2009 08:18 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
Okay, so I think by reading through this thread, you should have a pretty good idea on the ballpark price were looking at. Now as was mentioned things like the helper springs & torrington bearings aren't a must to save some $ & can easily be added down the road. Ziggy has listed the machining prices for the plates & the bushings & there might be a small amount of room for improvement if other get in on this as well. I'm still looking into the hardanodizing (& need to confirm) but looks like its probably $100-150 for one set & will still be that price with several more sets (so obviously the more who want the plates, the less it will be).
As Scott had mentioned, these plates won't be 100% specific to this setup. You could run them with any Koni coil-over setup so again, you could run Ground-Control coilovers with their coxial hat & end up with the same sort of setup.
I have found a local source for the spherical bearings. They have two versions available. The one speced in this setup is a high quality version & it will run $40 a piece CDN (cash price) & there is also a lesser version that will run you $20 a piece CDN (cash price)
For the Hypercoils, it looks like I'm able to get them for $50 a piece (so $200 total) & the Koni sports for $620 total. This is in USD & shipping would be extra & has to be to a US address (because they are not an actual retailer). I was told they will price match so may be able to do abit better, if anyone can find them for less & if others are interested, should be able to get abit better pricing.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#288558
January 12, 2009 09:07 pm UTC
January 12, 2009 09:07 pm UTC
|
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 6,079 Mississauga, Ontario
Jeff Mitchell
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 6,079
Mississauga, Ontario
|
I'm having a cheap DSMer moment here, but does the upper mount plate have to be done in aluminum? I know it's better to save the weight, but the material and annodizing are certainly going to dive up the cost. What material are the RRE plates?
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Jeff Mitchell]
#288563
January 12, 2009 10:04 pm UTC
January 12, 2009 10:04 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
I believe the RRE plates are aluminum & I think every other top plate I've seen has also been aluminum. Though not sure if most of them are hard anodized or just regular anodizing. I guess if you really wanted to you don't have to have the top plates hard anodized (maybe just clear cost them to give them some protection) but this setup should basically be the last suspension setup you'll ever need & I think the hard anodizing will stand up, so this can happen. If there's 3-4 people interested in getting the top plates the hard anodizing is probably on $40 a person, which I think is well worth the cost, in long term benefits.
Also it looks like these sperical bearings are a much better bearing then alot of the other companies use. I have know idea what RRE uses but you see on other online forums where guys are going through several sets a season. Thats shouldn't be the case with the ones speced here. Those common failing ones, go for something like $10 ea US. The ones that I found for $40 locally are going for $45 ea US, so that seems like a good find.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#288564
January 12, 2009 10:08 pm UTC
January 12, 2009 10:08 pm UTC
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263
Niagara Falls, Ontario
|
Jeff, switching materials would NOT make it any cheaper, unless you went to a hard plastic, which I don't think I would trust enough. To go from aluminum to steel, you might save $50. on the material, but you will lose more than that on the machining time (therefore cost).
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Tim Hunt]
#288658
January 13, 2009 03:45 pm UTC
January 13, 2009 03:45 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
Is anyone else looking for Koni shocks &/or hypercoils? I'm currently working with a couple places, best price I've seen on both is $560 US for the Knois & $200 for the Hypercoils. I will be ordering both regardless but if your looking to pick up a set then we can save on shipping & brokerage. If your seriously interested (ie your going to buy them & wouldn't mind saving abit on shipping/brokerage) then contact me via PM. Again thats US$, so you could ballpark $40US shipping, $12CDN brokerage (these could both be less depending on if more then one other wants in) & of course 13% taxes. So your looking at $1100 ballpark for both items (this could vary with exchange, etc). If your not serious please don't waste my time or yours.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#289133
January 20, 2009 04:31 pm UTC
January 20, 2009 04:31 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
Okay, I guess the next thing is to see who or if anyone else is interested in the top plates. These will work with other Koni setups & not sure but may work with other shocks as well (since I would assume all the ends designed for our factory setups would have the same shaft end diameter). As Ziggy mentioned the cost of material & machining for 4 plates will be $225 +tax, if there's more interest that may go down abit but there's not much room to move. I found someone local for the spherical bearings & was told $40 ea CDN for the ones spec'd (good price, most places are asking 40-45 US) or they have a cheaper one that should work as well at $20 CDN (though if your going this far, not sure why you'd cheap out on the bearing). I got a price on hard anodizing, not sure if this is absolutely required but it does add a very tough finish & as far as I know strengthens the material as well. I was quoted $210 CDN for the min order charge, & they can probably do three sets for that price. So if someone else wants theirs anodized its $105 & if there's two others interested, you'd be looking at $70. If you seriously interested in these plates, post up here, then we can go from there.
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#289141
January 20, 2009 05:43 pm UTC
January 20, 2009 05:43 pm UTC
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 809 Halifax, Nova Scotia
Scott McIntyre
Serious Member
|
Serious Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 809
Halifax, Nova Scotia
|
Scott, do you happen to have any pics of your setup, I'd be interested to see it? Your top perch from GC, does it isolate the spring like the one does in this setup? Also are you using a 2.25" or 2.5" spring & what lengths? No pictures, but it looks practically identical to the photos on http://farnorthracing.com/autocross/konis.html (minus the helper springs & torrington bearings). The GC spring hat isolates the spring from the RRE plate, and allows the spring to pivot & remain coaxial to the shock shaft without bending. I'm using 2.5" Eibach ERS springs. You can get them real cheap at http://www.racewerx.com/springs.htm. I bought a set from them myself. Lengths are 8" front, possibly 7" rear (can't remember exactly). My spring rates are 500F/400R in winter and 900F/400R in summer. I have the crazy front spring rate in summer because I run big 275/40R17 race tires in competition, which require lots of roll resistance to keep the tire off the fender.
Scott McIntyre 1997 Talon TSi AWD 2008 Mitsu EVO X MR
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Greg Kelly]
#289150
January 20, 2009 06:39 pm UTC
January 20, 2009 06:39 pm UTC
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196 Newmarket, Ontario
Daren Peacock
OP
Insane Member
|
OP
Insane Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,196
Newmarket, Ontario
|
Yes, your right Greg, if you need the standoffs, Ziggy quoted $135 for material & machining. I have a lath a work & the stand offs seem pretty straight forward, so I was planning on trying to make my own.
The anodizing isn't cheap but I think its probably worth it in the long run (especially if we have 3 people interested). The hard anodizing is supposed to be a much tougher finish then your typical anodizing, so it should last much longer & I had read that when aluminum is hard anodized, it makes it as stong or stronger then steel. This price was just a first contact price, maybe if we did cash or didn't need their typical 3-4 day turnaround they could give us abit of a break. I just put the prices out there so the cost would be known & any savings that could be had would be a bonus.
I believe the extra shock grooves are just required when your using the Koni threaded sleevs. Their internal stop must be in a different location vs the GC sleeve. So basically the grove is just to move the factory location of the snap ring, so that the Koni sleeve is installed at the proper location. I would imagine this isn't required for the guys running the GC setup as they look like they end up in approx the same location when installed.
Thanks for the info Scott, I guess its probably best to keep the info in this thread instead of PM. So I'm wondering what you think of the 400r/500f combo for Daily driving (your still running stock valved shocks, correct)? I've heard the 400r might be abit stiff from some users. My car's a summer daily driver & currently just see's drag track use (though I may eventually want to try turning corners as well, lol) so I was thinking the 350R, 500F combo?
98 Eclipse GSX DSM82HTA
|
|
|
Re: Any interest in this 2g Koni suspension setup?
[Re: Daren Peacock]
#289255
January 21, 2009 05:06 pm UTC
January 21, 2009 05:06 pm UTC
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 809 Halifax, Nova Scotia
Scott McIntyre
Serious Member
|
Serious Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 809
Halifax, Nova Scotia
|
Thanks for the info Scott, I guess its probably best to keep the info in this thread instead of PM. So I'm wondering what you think of the 400r/500f combo for Daily driving (your still running stock valved shocks, correct)? I've heard the 400r might be abit stiff from some users. My car's a summer daily driver & currently just see's drag track use (though I may eventually want to try turning corners as well, lol) so I was thinking the 350R, 500F combo? The 400R are quite bouncy with stock valved Koni Sport shocks. It's about as stiff as you'd ever want to go for the rear, unless you get the shocks revalved (I haven't). For a street application, I'd say 350-375 rear would likely be better. Keep in mind that due to the rear suspension geometry, changes in rear rates have a much larger effect than changes in the front. So a 25-50 lb/in change in the rear might be the equivalent to a 100 lb/in change in the front (just pulling numbers out of my ass, but you get the idea). In the front, I find 500 great for the street. It's not until you get into sticky race tires that you need more front spring.
Scott McIntyre 1997 Talon TSi AWD 2008 Mitsu EVO X MR
|
|
|
|
|