Hey guys.

I'm thinking its a head gasket... not to sure here is what I've noticed. When i first start the car and let it warm up, once its warm and i floor it my buddies say white smoke comes out. once its been a while I've been driving around it barely smokes white , to not even any. the car does not over heat.

i did see some coolant slowing coming down from the side of the exhaust manifold (while i was changing my alternator). but cannot find the source. i would like some advice from the people who have more experience of course. don't want to change a head gasket and all other gaskets needed to get there if that's not the problem. Also i do not have to add coolant regularly. have had the car for 2-3weeks now and its all good for fluids.


Thanks a lot

Jules

check the coolant line that routes behind the O2 housing. It's a metal line that goes from the thermostat to the oil filter housing. It could be leaking from there.

Yeah, the external leak won't be related to it getting into the cylinders.

If it's not overheating, and you're not losing coolant, that's enough proof that there isn't a problem.

To me this sounds like valve seals.
Do you go through much oil?
Check if it's actually oil. Idle the car and warm it up, then give it some gas.

It could be fuel - do a boost leak test.
Also, the car will run more rich before it's fully warmed up (and I mean more than just a few minutes).

okay i will check all that. I'm pretty sure its coolant tho , because it was green what I seen sliding down my engine.

No I dont burn much oil other then what comes out of my Oil cap/Dip stick.

i was under there changing the alternator and the engine is disgusting. like a nice layer of oil/coolant on it lol.


i was wondering do i have any thing to worry about if i spray degreaser all over it and pressure wash it. ( due to electrical wires and all)? If not what product do you recommend? cleaning it might give me a better idea of things.

I don't recommend pressure washing your engnie bay, Jules. That's a recipe for disaster.

okay so how would i clean it? just by hand ?

Definitely the green leak is coolant, but I was referring to the smoke from your exhaust.

If you want to check the condition of the motor & head gasket, do a compression test and/or a leak-down test.

You can clean with a power washer but it's a lot of work to mask off all the electricals. You'd have to bag everything up.
Well, even washing with a garden hose you should be careful of that.
Degreaser and a rag is the safest way.

i did compression test Rob,

its

175 175 130 175

i already poured oil into it and figured it was a piston ring because it jumped up to 175.

what i want to fix for now is the coolant leaking, whats cause white smoke when i floor it.

im not fixing the compression im going to drive the engine til it dies because i have a 7 bolt and then do a 6 bolt swap.



Like i said no over heating issues. I have only done 1000km with the car. Oil and Coolant look like they are not loosing ALOT.


Can it be a Head Gasket?

will check those things mentioned above when its nicer out side.

My point was: The smoke is not necessarily coolant. From my experience on a DSM it usually is not coolant (especially since you are not having any symptoms of cooling system problems).

so what do u think it is ? Oil? wouldnt that smoke black ?

what should i check?

- Excess fuel due to a boost leak (look it up and do a boost leak test).

- Oil from leaky valve seals.

- Oil from blow-by due to your low compression.

There are reasons any of these might only happen when you first get on the gas.
Boost leaks are very common so I'd check that first.
If that's not it, just keep your eye on the oil and coolant situation. Fix all your leaks and see which level is still dropping over time.

k i got some more info guys.


first of all it smokes white ALOT. Like seafoam lol

Okay i have a couple pics and a video.

this is what i found. i stoped the car and it was smoking from under the hood. so i open it up and its oil that fell on the back tube of the 02 housing ( if u know what i mean ) so i drive my wife to town.

I come back do the same thing. i open the hood and well its dry there.... for now. then i rev the engine ( white smoke out the tail pipe.) and i see oil AGAIN on the 02 housing. and now its spreading down towards the alternator. i cannot see it dripping.

Oh and my oil fittings on my turbo ahve no oil on or around them


here are some pics and video




Video


http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk289/aCx85/?action=view&current=MOV03066.flv

if it was oil i was burning wouldnt that make a blueish smoke ?


thought white was antifreeze or water

The best thing to do is smell it.
Fuel, oil and coolant each have a very distinct smell.
They can all look very similar in a cloud, though.

In the video that just looks like exhaust leaks.

In the pictures I'd say you probably have coolant hoses leaking and you have to do something about your valve cover and dip stick too.

ya that in the proccess Rob ordered stuff, should be in today or next week.


i know its not fuel... its oil or coolant. but its hard to say under the hood its oil i believe unless coolant can make sh!t that nasty , think and greasy , smoke like that. ( id have to find out both the smells ) the white smoke im not sure.


from where its leaking your thinking exhaust? as in my exhaust gasket?

any house pass under the exhaust manifold ?i can take more pics if needed / Videos


so my best bet would be full head gasket set ? tri layer?

will a leak down test indicate where im leaking ?

so this morning i look at my coolant reservoir and it was pretty low. I go bring my wife to work and i come back ( used the talon ) and now its back up?


is that normal? like in the morning that its low and when i go drive it and check it after i turn the car off that its back to the high point ?

Yes, reservoir is working.

It may be leaking where the water pipe meets the water pump. The pipe is between the block and the exhaust manifold, the connection is under the belts.

Leak down test probably wont help you yet. You ruled out the head gasket already. The only other things a leak down could tell you is a burned valve or leaking seals.

Coolant smells sweet when its burning.

sounds like the cylinder head is warped.

white smoke is most often burnt coolant. your cooling system, does it have pressure when full?
I would no longer drive that vehicle until it is repaired.

the head will need resurfacing. A multilayer gasket will require the deck of the block to be machined. Meaning the engine will need to come out. Not necessary.

how did i rule out the head gasket?

how i check if it has pressure when full?

You did a compression test. Only one cylinder lower then the rest, fixed by a small amount of oil tells me you just have some worn rings.
If you had 1 or more low readings that was not resolved by oil, then I would start to worry about the head gasket.

http://www.benplace.com/pressure_test.htm

Don't bother testing the system until all the leaks are plugged.

A warped head is the last thing you will want to conclude.

some technician have a tool that has an attachment that resembles the rad cap. this tool will give you a pressure reading.

usually when the system is pressurized, after shutting the car off, and letting it sit for a while, you can CAREFULLY ( hot coolant can cause serious burns) open the rad cap with a towel or rag SLOWLY to hear the pressure hiss out.

This pressure raises the boiling point of the coolant.

This will probably not happen for you. It seems like the coolant is entering the combustion chamber though that cylinder with low compression, assuming the results were accurate.

you already seem to have all the tell tale signs of a blown gasket. Loss of power? I'm not sure where that oil you mentioned is coming from, it may or may not be related. Do you have oil pressure?

you may want to consider that when the car is running there are greater cylinder pressures than during a compression test. Not to mention coolant flow and/or pressure. the coolant leak may not manifest during this test.

Or maybe its a cracked head. or block, but unlikely.

its not oil im lossing im 99% sure its coolant. ive been checking my oil and its never gone down.

as in my gauge in the car? what should it read? around where? the one next to the boost gauge ?

Very true. You could also check the oil for coolant mixing into it if you do suspect a blown head gasket.

k i poped the hood and reved the engine and smoke seems to be smoking out of or around the last bolt on the manifold ( if standing in front of the car the very far left ) its very light . might be of coolant that is burning and smoking.


also from my manifold to the my oil pan it is NASTY like it has been never washed or ne thing. ill try and grab a video.

One of the bolts on the exhaust manifold intersects with a coolant pathway... I can't remember exactly which one, I'm sure you could find it by searching. You wouldn't happen to be missing a bolt there, would you?

k guys here is the video. it smokes out of the manifold and when i rev it there bubbles around the manifold , on the top side cause thats what i can see.


can it be as simply as only the exhaust manifold? could i be losing coolant by there? ill be cleaning the engine bay later with engine degreaser ( which my buddy says is amazing ) and a hose. with all the nasty gunk gone i should be able to see something.

Video

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk289/aCx85/?action=view&current=MOV03069.flv

is it possible im leaking coolant out of my exhaust manifold?

I think you are leaking exhaust out of your exhaust manifold.
Might there be coolant or oil in the exhaust, or maybe some unburnt fuel? Sure, but we can't tell you that from the video.

okay so i cleaned every thing with degreaser and i found where its wet first. and im assuming its a head gasket ( possibly others) so a head gasket set might help.

started to drip on the o2 housing like other pics just cant see from where its coming

Pics:

Is it not actually your valve cover gasket that's leaking?

no i think it like spit out and went up there. but i might be wrong

there no leakage on the other side from the o2 housing towards the driver side.

I think combustion is getting past the bad ring, pressurizing your crankcase and leaving through various places.
One being the valve cover gaskets.
Another being the breather hose (between the crankcase and the intake snorkel) - check the turbo compressor inlet, if it's wet with oil then that's why it's smoking when you first drive it after sitting.
It's also what pops the dipstick.

Do a leak down test or a cooling system pressure test, if you still suspect the head gasket. I wouldn't bother if it doesn't run hot or spit coolant. Just keep your eye on things so you don't overheat horribly if I'm wrong about this

Also, please try and use your shift key

okay !

So Rod this is the situation. I just bought the car as a project car. My DD is a 02 Mazda Protege5. Its not over heating or anything like that so if its not a Head gasket what would you change. Like I said before I want to have fun. I plan doing a 6 bolt swap, but since this engine is mostly functional I want to drive it til it dies. I wanna mod it like if everything was good. Once engines blows I will swap a 6 bolt ( hopefully after the summer). What would you change, gasket wise? if thats the situation like your saying.


Turbo doesnt have any oil on it, other then the 02 housing.

I know im losing power with these situations, but am I losing ALOT?


Was going to get a head gasket set. but if I dont need the head gasket. then the job will be ALOT easier

Like Rob said, pull the intake pipe off of the turbo and check inside for oil deposits.

Seems that by the pictures you are leaking oil from the valve cover gasket.

Also, something easy to check is to pull the upper IC pipe that attaches to the throttle body elbow...if you see a little coolant in there, the FIAV seal is done. I had this happen to me and it got me swearing because I couldn't for the life of me find where I was losing coolant causing the white smoke/coolant burning smell.

I will do that and check for shaft play at the same time

If I have bad rings and want to get around this pressure situation. I read all I have to do is drill a hole in my valve cover and have it run to a catch can ? true ? I know i have bad rings in one cylinder thats 100%, just want to know why im leaking and from where.

I will check the turbo and what Louis said tomorrow if its nice

Jules,

where abouts in Quebec are you?

Im in Chicoutimi

ha, cool, used to live in Roberval years back. A little too far from me to take a drive down though

k Update I just checked the Piping to the Elbow and the intake pipe to the turbo.

brief description:

the Piping where the elbow is and a small film of coolant or oil (still brown ish ) whatever it was. i wiped my finger around and it was on my finger. But like i said a small film.

Where the intake connect to the turbo , i took off the piping there and there was ALOt more oil/coolant. my finger was black. ( very black crusty like oil with like black dots like balls of oil)

my VC also might seem to be leaking on the right half i rub my finger on the seal and its wet compared to the left have which is dry.

here are the pics:

1 and 2 are the elbow
3 is the piping to elbow
4th is intake piping to Turbo Compressor
5th is VC as u can see the oil on the seal

Is all that nasty stuff in the intake piping cause the white smoke ? It smokes only if I sit there for a while mostly. It will smoke, smoke will stop. If I sit parked somewhere for a bit then leave it will smoke white most of the time.


Also checked shaftplay couldnt really pull in or out because couldnt get my fingers in there. But I cant move it side to side or back wards. Turbo was rebuild 70k ago

Where the elbow connects to the Intake there's alot of oil around that square piece. ( on the outside dark black oil/coolant)


Look at my oils / connect everything seems fine. Oil is still Full, Coolant overfill tank is still full.



Oil in my compressor inlet is that because of my dirty ass air filter?

PCV is going to be changed as soon as it comes in the mail

Okay so ya there is shaft play back and fourth in the turbo , non side to side.

I took off the intake pipe and cleaning all the oil out of it and cleaning the filter ill see from there how much oil im losing / coolant, or if its from the past.


if thees shaft play does this mean new turbo needed? will a 16g fit on my stock manifold ? how much would it cost me for one?

Well there's your problem!

I forgot to mention the PCV valve.. If the PCV valve is faulty, you'll be pushing boost from the intake manifold into the crankcase, which definitely contributes to crankcase pressure problems!

Turbo shaft play - a little side to side is OK. There should be no in/out.
If it's turbo shaft seals, it should smoke all the time.

You don't need to drill the valve cover to install a catch can.
Just put the can on the existing breather hose between the valve cover and the intake snorkel (at the turbo compressor inlet).
An in-line fuel filter works well too, but you have to replace it when it fills up.

If you can catch the oil instead of dumping it into your intake, your smoking problem should go away.
It smokes after you sit because you've given time for the oil to settle at the turbo compressor inlet.

Replace the valve cover gasket (including the four spark plug hole gaskets), and the engine should stay clean too.
You should also check the hoses for the oil cooler.

Okay thx alot rob , How long can i beat a turbo like this? I will get a 16g ( price? ) i took off my UICP and cleaned it with degreaser and water , same for the intake pipe to the compressor.

So you think my head gasket is fine ? im leaking alot from my Exhaust manifold i believe then and my valve cover gasket.


Wheres this breaher hose thing ? i see the nipple coming off the valve cover that goes to my MAF i believe.


smoke MOSTLY happens when i start the car and it gets above vaccum ( starts to go into Boost) after a while of beating it lol. theres no more smoke. im assuming the oil is being burnt and there no more, until i sit for a while then it smokes again correct?

where is all this oil coming from tho?

my bad ring ? and if i had a catch can it would go into that instead of my turbo ?

No prob.
The turbo is probably fine.
EVO III 16g I think are under $500 USD now.

I think your head gasket is fine. Like I said a few times, you'd be overheating or at least pushing coolant if there's a cooling system problem.

Exhaust manifold gasket + oil in the combustion chamber = smoke under the hood. Smell that stuff, it will probably smell like fuel and oil.

The breather hose is what you said, but it goes to the intake snorkel (the one with all the oil in it). That's where your oil is leaking from.
It's because of your bad ring, a bad PCV valve, or both.

not just smoke I see that there black wet stuff that came out.


Now what am I losing then ? like my oil and my coolant seem fine lol


okay so instea of putting that hose to the intake pipe i run it to a catch can ?


I just block the hole thats on the intake pipe ?

Is it possible im leaking out of the gasket where my elbow connect to my intake ? oil there also.



Where do u recommend buying an Evo 3 Big 16g? It mounts to my stock manifold and o2 housing ?


Oh i understand how oil is geting into my intake piping, but how is it getting into my UICP? and Elbow?

It's better to put the catch can in-line, but you can block off the nipple on the intake if you want.
Think of it as an air/oil separator. The air drawn into your intake right now contains oil from the crankcase - you want to let that oil settle in the catch can instead of in your turbo/motor.

The elbow / throttle body gasket could leak.

Ziggy (check the user list) can get you a 16g easily and also I think there's a sale on right now at FP or somewhere else. Search around.

okay and i added a question how is it getting into my UICP?

so u mean sumthing like this for the catch can

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/attac...-make-your-own-catch-can-25-dscf0854.jpg


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/txl146/catchcanpictures001.jpg

The UICP is the next thing after your turbo and intercooler... The oil has to take that path to get into the combustion chamber.
It probably pools in your intake manifold too.

And yes that picture is what I meant by using a fuel filter for a catch can.

k so if i put a catch can ? the oil will automatically wanna drop down into it and the air will continue?


ill look for DIY


Thx alot every one that helped me.

i will be changing those parts for now


Exhaust manifold gasket, the gasket at the elbow and the VC gaskets and add a catch can.


Rob what you were saying is if the catch can doesnt solve the issue then its turbo seals allowing oil to pass?

Turbo, maybe...
PCV valve could be a problem either way too (letting pressure into the crankcase if it's shot - or if there is a lot of crankcase pressure you could get oil into the intake manifold even with a good PCV valve).
Basically, you have to fix your ring to solve this completely.

Wouldnt the catch can solve the issue?


Dont wanna fix the ring cause its a big job and a bunch of other stuff to change with that. ( my engine has 271,000km ) Im going to put a 6 bolt just dont want to know since the engine is running. Want to have a lil fun and have the car running for the summer. Not have both engines in my garage

PCV valve is good pulled it off and tried to blow throw it (side thats in the hose) no air gets throw ( so no air going into VC)

ball sits porperly that means and its good right ?

You're going to go through oil one way or another, that's all

Dont care going through oil really just dont want it to smoke


Went to buy my catch can , washing all piping now


Am I losing ALOT of power? Other then boost leaks that im sure I have

To sum up what I've read, here's a few suggestions placed neatly into a nice, tidy paragraph and list.

Disclaimer: This is going to cost you money, probably a good chunk of money.

Your Exhaust Manifold Gasket is leaking. Change it. While you are at it, replace your Exhaust Manifold to Head Studs , your Turbo Bolts , and your Turbo to Manifold Gasket .

As Rob stated, you are pressurizing your crankcase. This is being done by either the bad piston ring (air is being forced past your rings into your oil pan) or a bad PCV Valve. The first is definite, the latter also probable.

You can blow about 1-2psi into the PCV. Your turbo pushes upwards of 10-12. Just because you can't get air by your PCV doesn't mean your turbo can't. It's a cheap part, replace it.

You aren't overheating, therefore your headgasket is probably fine. You would notice your headgasket leaking if you had more than one of the following conditions:

• Burning white smoke all the time
• Loss of Coolant
• Overheating
• Oil in your coolant
• Coolant in your Oil
• Loss of power
• Coolant Overflow filling quickly from empty
• Low compression in more than one cylinder
• Oil/Coolant soaked spark plugs
• Poor idle
• Low Vacuum

Replacing old gaskets and hitting everything with brake clean, spray nine, and a ton of rags can be one of the best things you can do for your engine. This will help in spotting problems quickly when it comes to leaks.

Your turbo is fine. Get your car up to snuff mechanically before you do any performance modifications.

An oil catch can is designed to "Catch" the oil between your valve cover vent (on the side) and your intake pipe. If you read up on the "Free Mods" on your car, you will find that cleaning your Intake, Lower/Upper Intercooler pipes and Intercooler can free up some horsepower. Your SMIC probably has quite the sludge buildup in it from over the last little while of filling it with oil. Use some Gasoline or Varsol and clean that sucker out! Make sure you wash it out thoroughly and let it dry out. Compressed air blowing onto the fins will clean out any crap that has built up in the fins as well.

On the lower right and left side of your keyboard holds a button around 1-2 inches long and it says "Shift" or has a little up arrow on it. At the beginning of each sentence or when writing a Proper Noun, it is customary to use this key. It is also expected on this board.

Let us know how it turns out!

Thank alot

Okay so today with all your guys help I did the following:

-Took off all piping and sprayed with degreaser/Gasoline.
-Cleaned intercooler with Gasoline.
-Put in a Oil Catch can.

I will be changing the Gaskets that have oil residue near them. Which seemed to be leaking. At the same time I will clean the engine because I will have more room with items off.

I will do What was suggested up top about changing the manifold bolts and turbo bolts.

Shall I use ARP manifold bolts and turbo bolts? Thats if ARP made some for those , or should I use OEM.

Once again Thank you ALOT. I will keep you guys updated in this thread.

So I went for a drive.


No white smoke at all.

Heres what the filter looks like now.



I think my VC is leaking




Question about those filters....when do I change them? When its all dirty? Or can I let oil pool at the bottom? I will be buying/making an oil catch can. Its just Temporary.

Nice!

If you see a good puddle of oil in the filter you should change it.

You don't need ARP Bolts, stock will do fine. I just out those there as a suggestion.
You should also do what Rob suggested by changing the valve cover gasket and spark plug gaskets. Don't forget to put silicone or RTV at the sharp edges!

I will be doing all that

Thanks for the suggestion.


And I put that filter on backwards

Today I got my PCV , Dipstick and oil cap in the mail!

Put them all on this morning.

My little filter thing is doing its job.

Should I route my PCV there also? Or is there no point.

One more thing, I have this hole on the side of my valve cover...any one know what that is and for?

What side? You shouldnt have any open holes - oil will be pouring all over the place.

Put a line on it and plug it back into the intake pipe or to your catch can.

Yes there is a tiny hole in the valve cover, front driver side, and runs to the top of the spark plug wells area. Im assuming this is what your referring to ?

This is to drain any excess oil, that may build up in the spark plug area from a leaky oil cap, gasket or cracked valve cover.

I think he's talking about the tiny hole, which is a drain for the spark plug well.

You would be disabling the PCV by routing it anywhere else.
There would be no good pressure relief at idle/cruise.
Racers do it though (run no PCV, block the intake mani. port and route the hose to the catch can)..

Ya that sounds right guys.

Its the little whole to drain excess oil in the spark plug area.