Hey all, just wondering if any of you have ever gotten one of these?

Do you know if there is a decibel limit in Ontario that has to be met by an aftermarket exhaust? the exhaust is whatever one came from Japan, hasn't been modified in the least, and it's only loud if you get on it.

It's a 3" turbo back exhaust with 3" high flow cat.

Just wondering if any of you have fought this ticket and gotten it tossed out and what was your argument?

The actual ticket is "Improper Muffler for Vehicle". $110 dollars.

Everyone around here fights it. Unless they did a decible reading at the side of the road.

Thats what I have been told atleast.

There was definitely no decibel reading done. Apparently in Ontario it's up to the "officers discretion" if the muffler is too loud.

But mine really isn't loud, it's no where near as loud as my dad's harley, or have the muscle cars around here, or even half of the civics.

The "Improper Muffler" charge should really be the "You have the wrong type of muffler" charge. It actually has nothing to do with being too loud. The Highway Traffic Act says you can't have certain exhaust components, and the cop thought you had one of those:



More detailed thoughts in my post in this thread.

So all you would need is a safety slip of when its brought saying it came into ontario and they said it was legit and it hasnt been touched since?

When the cop pulled me over he asked "Do you know why I'm pulling you over?"

I said "No officer I do not"

He goes "well, you see, your exhaust is too loud"

After taking my information and giving me a ticket for "Improper Muffler Motor Vehicle section 75(1)" of the Highway Traffic Act

Could he give me it because of the "excessive or unusual noise" coming from my muffler? Even though I hear about 50 cars louder than my car.

hey bro i got the same ticket..waiting for a court date, but the cop told me to take off the exhaust get a new picture of the car with the stock exhaust and present it at court and he will drop the ticket...

The link that you gave in that thread has no expired, I did some digging up and is this the part you were talking about ?


2. Every vehicle, other than a motorcycle or a vehicle referred to in section 4, shall be so constructed that

(a) where tested in accordance with Annex 3 to ECE Regulation No. 51, Uniform Provisions concerning the Approval of Motor Vehicles Having at Least Four Wheels with regard to Their Noise Emissions, dated March 11, 1996, excluding the requirements of paragraph 3.2 of that Annex, the vehicle conforms to section 6 of that Regulation; or

(b) where tested in accordance with

(i) section 3 of Test Method 1106 — Noise Emission Tests (August 2005), the exterior sound level does not exceed 83 dBA when a value of 2 dBA is subtracted from the highest average sound level recorded during the test, in the case of a bus with a GVWR of more than 4 536 kg (10,000 lb.),

(ii) SAE Recommended Practice J986, Sound Level for Passenger Cars and Light Trucks (August 1994), or SAE Standard J1470, Measurement of Noise Emitted by Accelerating Highway Vehicles (March 1992), the exterior sound level does not exceed 83 dBA when a value of 2 dBA is subtracted from the highest average sound level recorded during the test, in the case of a heavy-duty vehicle with a GVWR of 4 536 kg (10,000 lb.) or less, and

(iii) SAE Recommended Practice J986, Sound Level for Passenger Cars and Light Trucks (August 1994), or SAE Standard J1470, Measurement of Noise Emitted by Accelerating Highway Vehicles (March 1992), the exterior sound level does not exceed 80 dBA when a value of 2 dBA is subtracted from the highest average sound level recorded during the test, in the case of a light-duty vehicle.

What pisses me off is that I don't feel like I should have to drop the exhaust. The car is not loud, as I was pulled over on the side of the street, 2 Harley's went ripping past me, and everything was fine with them.

It's the biased bullshit that comes from these asshole cops that makes people hate them. If it's an import car they ticket it, if it's a muscle car it's "sh!t that sounds good". The frack out of here. He even went so far to tell me that there is no "maximum decibel limit", which according to the federal motor vehicle act there is.

There was a post recently where someone fought one of these and had the Justice et al. come out for a listen. The Justice said "that's not too loud" and the ticket was dropped.

Hopefully my Justice of the Peace will be so nice.

I really don't want to spend money to replace my nice 3" high flow system.

Granted, I don't like the muffler on the car, I like the dual exhaust look on an MR2, but this is still bullshit.

Take it to court, if the officer is a no show - ticket gets dropped.

If he does show he will get up on the stand and say how he notice you car and the noise from the muffler was excessive and Unusual. The crown proc will ask how long he has driven for as a police officer and as a private citizen. He will then ask during that time has he ever encountered a Toyota MR2, the answer will be yes. Then he will be asked to compare the sound from your car to the other ones he has come across. He will most likely say sometime like the other sound stock and yours sounds excessive and unusual.

Then its your turn to have fun, you get to cross examine the officer. You can bring up the years he has driven and the other MR2's he has come across. Then ask him how many have be JDM RHD drive MR2's. My guess is none, so how can he compare what a JDM MR2 should sound like.

The only risk with this is that you will have to take the stand and you will be open to cross by the crown proc.


I got hit with a muffler ticket where the officer said it was kinda loud, but once we hit court it was a well practice exchange between the officer and the crown.

I think cops just hate the typical ricer fart can.. I've not heard of anyone getting ticketed otherwise.
I've never been asked about my loud 3" exhaust but it has a Y coming out of a stock looking muffler.
The Y is even ricer VW style, up angle!

I agree with the cops. Fart cans boooooooo

Mine doesn't sound ricer at all, that's the problem as well. I've got a low hollow tone since my exhaust system is 3" turbo back and the exhaust is only like 4 feet long.

^^^
It's that fart can look, not the sound.. Trust me
Big round shiny muffler = ticket.

Another question, I know you can plead guilty with circumstances or whatever, where they drop the ticket price to whatever. If you go to court and you end up losing, do you have to pay the full amount, or do they go and decide if they are going to drop the cost?

Also, if there is no "limit" set in Ontario, then how is my noise excessive to something that is not set? I drove around with a louder car than i have now for 2 years, and I get a ticket on some bullshit. Makes me wish the cop would take his police issued side arm and use it on himself.

Also, how was my car allowed into canada, had an out of country inspection, and passed that, knowing that the muffler didn't comply with legal standards of the country / province?

You can plead guilty with explanation directly to the Justice outside of the court room. That is the "first attendant" option - you go and sit in the Justice's office at the courthouse, and tell him how you are a bad boy but you will do better and need it lowered with time to pay. You could show him pictures of fixing it and such. This is all without having to deal with the prosecutor and the whole charade.

You can also plea bargain with the prosecutor prior to the trial. When you sign in with the pros., you make a deal for your guilty plea.

Even if they don't make a deal and you are found guilty, you could ask the judge after the trial for a reduction and time to pay.

Obviously there's the easy and hard ways, and the best way will very much be decided by the players involved.
Yay for great justice! :rolleyes:

This fact could certainly be on your side.

Fight it. Doesn't count against your insurance anyways but still fight it.

Tell me about it, sh!t like this and the e-test for only cars that are after 86 is just a fracking joke to me. I get this car that I love to death and can't even have fun because I'm constantly being followed around by the cops. This one cop followed me around for probably 20 minutes. I was just trying to get home from work without getting pulled over by this asshole. Normal city driving, completely clean record since I was 16. Nail me with this.

I'm fracking fuming.

Definitely Grant, I will fight it not because it would hurt my insurance (even though it wont), it's the principle of the thing. That cops can ticket little 4cyl cars with younger people driving them, but then a guy with a 79 AMC Gremlin that stinks like fuel and is easily 5x as loud as my car gets to drive around no tickets, and only a thumbs up from the DRP.

bro, photoshop it ahaha, thats what i was thinking find someone good with photoshop and get the exhaust changed, in court it is just pictures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVeRnSJkfqo

Ignore everything after the 35 second mark, my cell phone doesn't record the sound very well.

Brandon, I didn't read all through this thread as if you search you'll see this topic has been covered many times before. Basically it boils down to nothing about the muffler being too loud (like the actual HTA states) it has to do with the fact that I'm guessing you have a big N1 style muffler? And cops are told to give tickets to everyone in an import with a "fart can" muffler no matter how quiet it is. Yes you can fight it & should win (I did every time) but it will continue till you get a muffler that looks stock, end of story.

My current stock looking setup is much louder the my old Apexi N1 system was. I haven't been givin a second look in two summers, with the old system it seemed I was pulled over 2-3 times every summer. Most of the time talked my way out of the ticket as the cops realized I knew what I was talking about & there was technically nothing illegal about my setup.

Go to fight it, choose talk to the prosecutor option, get a reciept and/or pictures of your car with a stock exaust system, and "your fine friend"(the prosecutor) should drop it.

Didnt want to read all the 20 whatever posts, but this is how ive gotten rid of my 3 muffler tickets.

Keywords "OEM style/replacement" and "muffler" will help you

I'm going to buy an OEM setup for $100 off someone on the MR2 boards. Slap that on and take some pictures of it.

As long as I don't have to pay the ridiculous $110 fine, I am happy.

Get some good pics, with your liscence plate showing

I am going to find out where he lives and take a sh!t on his DD though.

I'm also filing a complaint against the officer.

QFT! A fart can isn't a fart can on a turbo car, but it still looks like a fart can!

Mine looks nothing like a fart can!

MR2 exhausts are amazing looking

I shall let everyone know the out come, I will hopefully beat it, then I can go file my nice complaint against the officer.

WTF..
I guess maybe RHD is just too JDM for that COP!

Good luck with that. If you think he dicked you around about the muffler, file a complaint & just hope you don't ever see that cop in the future or any of his buddies, otherwise you'll more then likely end up with alot more then a muffler ticket.

Fight the ticket, win, move on.....

Definitely too JDM. Not to mention, it's the end of the month, quota time!

I want to replace my exhaust with a Berk exhaust, it looks stock, but has bigger tips and it's dual mufflers instead of 1 big muffler, sounds gorgeous too.

I will file complaints every time I get harassed for driving an import, until it comes down to me having to sue the DRP for harassment and stress that I cannot drive my car without being hassled by the cops. I should not be getting pulled over just because of the car and demographic I am in.

I have a completely clear record, don't speed, don't street race, have emissions controls on my car. Pull me over on some bullshit, I will gladly file a nice complaint. I wont be living in Oshawa forever, but for him, he will be working with the DRP until he's 60+.

Win or Lose, it's the principle, and I am not one to be pushed around, by law enforcement or not. It's not like I was out there speeding, ripping around corners, being a complete asshole on the street. I was doing 52 in a 50 in 4th gear. My rpms were around 1500, the car was pretty much fracking idling. frack that loser.

you could be 100% in the right, but try to prove it in court. What you call harrassment, they will call "doing their job". If you really do file a complaint against a police officer, you might as well quit your job, because going to court will become a full time profession..

And your record won't be completely clear for long. It will be FULL of infractions for all kinds of things...even ones you have never done. There will be speeding tickets on your record in no time flat, no matter how slow you drive. There will be tickets for improper emissions....

Basically, you would be STUPID to file a complaint against a police officer. You might as well just go and repeatedly bang your head against a brick wall, you will have better results.

Nevertheless, I wont become part of a Police Province. I wont be scared of the people who are supposed to be in place to protect civilians not harass them.

And if that does happen Ziggy, I will be happy to take them to court every time it happens suing for more and more. I could quit my full time, and have the city pay more than I would make working.

Again, it's the DRP, I've got plenty of friends working for the Toronto Police Service. If I move out of the DRP I will be in the clear.

FIGHT IT!

Even if you lose (which would likely be since Judges usually favor cops), its the principle. I had the same problem 2 years back and the asshole pulled me over because cause he heard me from 2 blocks out (even though i was STOP at a red light waiting to make a left).

Long story short, I fought it, had a court date and the jack ass showed up. Everyone there had a ticket for running a red light, stop sign, failing to yeild (which IMO much more worse than my excessive noise) - none of the officers showed up but mine.

And the worst part is, the asshole lied about the whole situation. Of course, the judge pressumed he was right and i was in the wrong. If i had a receipt showing that i just got off the restaurant at the time he supposedly saw and followed me 2 blocks away... i wouldve won that case and embarass his ass.

Anyhow, the judge give me another chance and threw it away. Im still running the same muffler and it is fartcan, im just waiting for some extra funds to get rid off it.

All i did know is just painted the muffler black.

But fight it, whether you lose or win (hopefully you win), its the principle. Dont let this jackasses win and stand up.

You SHOULD fight the ticket. To file a complaint against a police officer would be just plain STUPID.
I was going to do it once, went in and talked to the supervisor. He already told me then and there, off the record, what was "likely" to be said in the cop's defence and what was "likely" to happen. Try to prove what he told me? Impossible!

The city will not pay you a single cent. They will drag it through the courts forever. You will be old broke, and dead long before they part with a single cent.

If you dont want to live in a police state, you are probably going to have to move out of Canada, and will DEFINITELY need to move out of Ontario. Ontario has been a police state for over 20 years already...they just never told anyone.

Think about it....the seat belt laws, the helmet laws, the mandatory car insurance laws....you have no CHOICE in anything! The police state dictates almost everything except when you can or cant take a sh!t....wait....they do dictate WHERE you can and cant take a sh!t..

Now the "street racing" laws. You are not even entitled to your day in court anymore. The police are judge, jury, and executioner.

We even have government "marketing boards" to tell the farmers how many eggs and how much milk they are allowed to sell.

Talk to your friends in the police force. If they TRULY are friends (though I am not sure police officers are capable of having friends...I am not even sure they are human), and if they will tell you the TRUTH, they will confirm what I am saying.

Suing is not as easy as they make it look on tv. Even IF you win your case, that doesn't mean you will ever collect a cent.
I was once going to sue the Ford Motor Company. I was 100% cent in the right, but my lawyer told me to be prepared to bring him every cent I had, and that it would still not be enough. Even if I could bring him the amount of money he would need, and the case was won, it would not be during my lifetime.

If you want ANY kind of freedom, you are going to have to live on an isolated island somewhere, or south of the border in the US of A. Wait...maybe Russia...I believe they have more freedom these days than we do...