Hey all, just wondering if any of you have ever gotten one of these?

Do you know if there is a decibel limit in Ontario that has to be met by an aftermarket exhaust? the exhaust is whatever one came from Japan, hasn't been modified in the least, and it's only loud if you get on it.

It's a 3" turbo back exhaust with 3" high flow cat.

Just wondering if any of you have fought this ticket and gotten it tossed out and what was your argument?

The actual ticket is "Improper Muffler for Vehicle". $110 dollars.

Everyone around here fights it. Unless they did a decible reading at the side of the road.

Thats what I have been told atleast.

There was definitely no decibel reading done. Apparently in Ontario it's up to the "officers discretion" if the muffler is too loud.

But mine really isn't loud, it's no where near as loud as my dad's harley, or have the muscle cars around here, or even half of the civics.

The "Improper Muffler" charge should really be the "You have the wrong type of muffler" charge. It actually has nothing to do with being too loud. The Highway Traffic Act says you can't have certain exhaust components, and the cop thought you had one of those:



More detailed thoughts in my post in this thread.

So all you would need is a safety slip of when its brought saying it came into ontario and they said it was legit and it hasnt been touched since?

When the cop pulled me over he asked "Do you know why I'm pulling you over?"

I said "No officer I do not"

He goes "well, you see, your exhaust is too loud"

After taking my information and giving me a ticket for "Improper Muffler Motor Vehicle section 75(1)" of the Highway Traffic Act

Could he give me it because of the "excessive or unusual noise" coming from my muffler? Even though I hear about 50 cars louder than my car.

hey bro i got the same ticket..waiting for a court date, but the cop told me to take off the exhaust get a new picture of the car with the stock exhaust and present it at court and he will drop the ticket...

The link that you gave in that thread has no expired, I did some digging up and is this the part you were talking about ?


2. Every vehicle, other than a motorcycle or a vehicle referred to in section 4, shall be so constructed that

(a) where tested in accordance with Annex 3 to ECE Regulation No. 51, Uniform Provisions concerning the Approval of Motor Vehicles Having at Least Four Wheels with regard to Their Noise Emissions, dated March 11, 1996, excluding the requirements of paragraph 3.2 of that Annex, the vehicle conforms to section 6 of that Regulation; or

(b) where tested in accordance with

(i) section 3 of Test Method 1106 — Noise Emission Tests (August 2005), the exterior sound level does not exceed 83 dBA when a value of 2 dBA is subtracted from the highest average sound level recorded during the test, in the case of a bus with a GVWR of more than 4 536 kg (10,000 lb.),

(ii) SAE Recommended Practice J986, Sound Level for Passenger Cars and Light Trucks (August 1994), or SAE Standard J1470, Measurement of Noise Emitted by Accelerating Highway Vehicles (March 1992), the exterior sound level does not exceed 83 dBA when a value of 2 dBA is subtracted from the highest average sound level recorded during the test, in the case of a heavy-duty vehicle with a GVWR of 4 536 kg (10,000 lb.) or less, and

(iii) SAE Recommended Practice J986, Sound Level for Passenger Cars and Light Trucks (August 1994), or SAE Standard J1470, Measurement of Noise Emitted by Accelerating Highway Vehicles (March 1992), the exterior sound level does not exceed 80 dBA when a value of 2 dBA is subtracted from the highest average sound level recorded during the test, in the case of a light-duty vehicle.

What pisses me off is that I don't feel like I should have to drop the exhaust. The car is not loud, as I was pulled over on the side of the street, 2 Harley's went ripping past me, and everything was fine with them.

It's the biased bullshit that comes from these asshole cops that makes people hate them. If it's an import car they ticket it, if it's a muscle car it's "sh!t that sounds good". The frack out of here. He even went so far to tell me that there is no "maximum decibel limit", which according to the federal motor vehicle act there is.

There was a post recently where someone fought one of these and had the Justice et al. come out for a listen. The Justice said "that's not too loud" and the ticket was dropped.

Hopefully my Justice of the Peace will be so nice.

I really don't want to spend money to replace my nice 3" high flow system.

Granted, I don't like the muffler on the car, I like the dual exhaust look on an MR2, but this is still bullshit.

Take it to court, if the officer is a no show - ticket gets dropped.

If he does show he will get up on the stand and say how he notice you car and the noise from the muffler was excessive and Unusual. The crown proc will ask how long he has driven for as a police officer and as a private citizen. He will then ask during that time has he ever encountered a Toyota MR2, the answer will be yes. Then he will be asked to compare the sound from your car to the other ones he has come across. He will most likely say sometime like the other sound stock and yours sounds excessive and unusual.

Then its your turn to have fun, you get to cross examine the officer. You can bring up the years he has driven and the other MR2's he has come across. Then ask him how many have be JDM RHD drive MR2's. My guess is none, so how can he compare what a JDM MR2 should sound like.

The only risk with this is that you will have to take the stand and you will be open to cross by the crown proc.


I got hit with a muffler ticket where the officer said it was kinda loud, but once we hit court it was a well practice exchange between the officer and the crown.

I think cops just hate the typical ricer fart can.. I've not heard of anyone getting ticketed otherwise.
I've never been asked about my loud 3" exhaust but it has a Y coming out of a stock looking muffler.
The Y is even ricer VW style, up angle!

I agree with the cops. Fart cans boooooooo

Mine doesn't sound ricer at all, that's the problem as well. I've got a low hollow tone since my exhaust system is 3" turbo back and the exhaust is only like 4 feet long.

^^^
It's that fart can look, not the sound.. Trust me
Big round shiny muffler = ticket.

Another question, I know you can plead guilty with circumstances or whatever, where they drop the ticket price to whatever. If you go to court and you end up losing, do you have to pay the full amount, or do they go and decide if they are going to drop the cost?

Also, if there is no "limit" set in Ontario, then how is my noise excessive to something that is not set? I drove around with a louder car than i have now for 2 years, and I get a ticket on some bullshit. Makes me wish the cop would take his police issued side arm and use it on himself.

Also, how was my car allowed into canada, had an out of country inspection, and passed that, knowing that the muffler didn't comply with legal standards of the country / province?

You can plead guilty with explanation directly to the Justice outside of the court room. That is the "first attendant" option - you go and sit in the Justice's office at the courthouse, and tell him how you are a bad boy but you will do better and need it lowered with time to pay. You could show him pictures of fixing it and such. This is all without having to deal with the prosecutor and the whole charade.

You can also plea bargain with the prosecutor prior to the trial. When you sign in with the pros., you make a deal for your guilty plea.

Even if they don't make a deal and you are found guilty, you could ask the judge after the trial for a reduction and time to pay.

Obviously there's the easy and hard ways, and the best way will very much be decided by the players involved.
Yay for great justice! :rolleyes:

This fact could certainly be on your side.

Fight it. Doesn't count against your insurance anyways but still fight it.

Tell me about it, sh!t like this and the e-test for only cars that are after 86 is just a fracking joke to me. I get this car that I love to death and can't even have fun because I'm constantly being followed around by the cops. This one cop followed me around for probably 20 minutes. I was just trying to get home from work without getting pulled over by this asshole. Normal city driving, completely clean record since I was 16. Nail me with this.

I'm fracking fuming.

Definitely Grant, I will fight it not because it would hurt my insurance (even though it wont), it's the principle of the thing. That cops can ticket little 4cyl cars with younger people driving them, but then a guy with a 79 AMC Gremlin that stinks like fuel and is easily 5x as loud as my car gets to drive around no tickets, and only a thumbs up from the DRP.

bro, photoshop it ahaha, thats what i was thinking find someone good with photoshop and get the exhaust changed, in court it is just pictures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVeRnSJkfqo

Ignore everything after the 35 second mark, my cell phone doesn't record the sound very well.

Brandon, I didn't read all through this thread as if you search you'll see this topic has been covered many times before. Basically it boils down to nothing about the muffler being too loud (like the actual HTA states) it has to do with the fact that I'm guessing you have a big N1 style muffler? And cops are told to give tickets to everyone in an import with a "fart can" muffler no matter how quiet it is. Yes you can fight it & should win (I did every time) but it will continue till you get a muffler that looks stock, end of story.

My current stock looking setup is much louder the my old Apexi N1 system was. I haven't been givin a second look in two summers, with the old system it seemed I was pulled over 2-3 times every summer. Most of the time talked my way out of the ticket as the cops realized I knew what I was talking about & there was technically nothing illegal about my setup.

Go to fight it, choose talk to the prosecutor option, get a reciept and/or pictures of your car with a stock exaust system, and "your fine friend"(the prosecutor) should drop it.

Didnt want to read all the 20 whatever posts, but this is how ive gotten rid of my 3 muffler tickets.

Keywords "OEM style/replacement" and "muffler" will help you

I'm going to buy an OEM setup for $100 off someone on the MR2 boards. Slap that on and take some pictures of it.

As long as I don't have to pay the ridiculous $110 fine, I am happy.

Get some good pics, with your liscence plate showing

I am going to find out where he lives and take a sh!t on his DD though.

I'm also filing a complaint against the officer.

QFT! A fart can isn't a fart can on a turbo car, but it still looks like a fart can!

Mine looks nothing like a fart can!

MR2 exhausts are amazing looking

I shall let everyone know the out come, I will hopefully beat it, then I can go file my nice complaint against the officer.

WTF..
I guess maybe RHD is just too JDM for that COP!

Good luck with that. If you think he dicked you around about the muffler, file a complaint & just hope you don't ever see that cop in the future or any of his buddies, otherwise you'll more then likely end up with alot more then a muffler ticket.

Fight the ticket, win, move on.....

Definitely too JDM. Not to mention, it's the end of the month, quota time!

I want to replace my exhaust with a Berk exhaust, it looks stock, but has bigger tips and it's dual mufflers instead of 1 big muffler, sounds gorgeous too.

I will file complaints every time I get harassed for driving an import, until it comes down to me having to sue the DRP for harassment and stress that I cannot drive my car without being hassled by the cops. I should not be getting pulled over just because of the car and demographic I am in.

I have a completely clear record, don't speed, don't street race, have emissions controls on my car. Pull me over on some bullshit, I will gladly file a nice complaint. I wont be living in Oshawa forever, but for him, he will be working with the DRP until he's 60+.

Win or Lose, it's the principle, and I am not one to be pushed around, by law enforcement or not. It's not like I was out there speeding, ripping around corners, being a complete asshole on the street. I was doing 52 in a 50 in 4th gear. My rpms were around 1500, the car was pretty much fracking idling. frack that loser.

you could be 100% in the right, but try to prove it in court. What you call harrassment, they will call "doing their job". If you really do file a complaint against a police officer, you might as well quit your job, because going to court will become a full time profession..

And your record won't be completely clear for long. It will be FULL of infractions for all kinds of things...even ones you have never done. There will be speeding tickets on your record in no time flat, no matter how slow you drive. There will be tickets for improper emissions....

Basically, you would be STUPID to file a complaint against a police officer. You might as well just go and repeatedly bang your head against a brick wall, you will have better results.

Nevertheless, I wont become part of a Police Province. I wont be scared of the people who are supposed to be in place to protect civilians not harass them.

And if that does happen Ziggy, I will be happy to take them to court every time it happens suing for more and more. I could quit my full time, and have the city pay more than I would make working.

Again, it's the DRP, I've got plenty of friends working for the Toronto Police Service. If I move out of the DRP I will be in the clear.

FIGHT IT!

Even if you lose (which would likely be since Judges usually favor cops), its the principle. I had the same problem 2 years back and the asshole pulled me over because cause he heard me from 2 blocks out (even though i was STOP at a red light waiting to make a left).

Long story short, I fought it, had a court date and the jack ass showed up. Everyone there had a ticket for running a red light, stop sign, failing to yeild (which IMO much more worse than my excessive noise) - none of the officers showed up but mine.

And the worst part is, the asshole lied about the whole situation. Of course, the judge pressumed he was right and i was in the wrong. If i had a receipt showing that i just got off the restaurant at the time he supposedly saw and followed me 2 blocks away... i wouldve won that case and embarass his ass.

Anyhow, the judge give me another chance and threw it away. Im still running the same muffler and it is fartcan, im just waiting for some extra funds to get rid off it.

All i did know is just painted the muffler black.

But fight it, whether you lose or win (hopefully you win), its the principle. Dont let this jackasses win and stand up.

You SHOULD fight the ticket. To file a complaint against a police officer would be just plain STUPID.
I was going to do it once, went in and talked to the supervisor. He already told me then and there, off the record, what was "likely" to be said in the cop's defence and what was "likely" to happen. Try to prove what he told me? Impossible!

The city will not pay you a single cent. They will drag it through the courts forever. You will be old broke, and dead long before they part with a single cent.

If you dont want to live in a police state, you are probably going to have to move out of Canada, and will DEFINITELY need to move out of Ontario. Ontario has been a police state for over 20 years already...they just never told anyone.

Think about it....the seat belt laws, the helmet laws, the mandatory car insurance laws....you have no CHOICE in anything! The police state dictates almost everything except when you can or cant take a sh!t....wait....they do dictate WHERE you can and cant take a sh!t..

Now the "street racing" laws. You are not even entitled to your day in court anymore. The police are judge, jury, and executioner.

We even have government "marketing boards" to tell the farmers how many eggs and how much milk they are allowed to sell.

Talk to your friends in the police force. If they TRULY are friends (though I am not sure police officers are capable of having friends...I am not even sure they are human), and if they will tell you the TRUTH, they will confirm what I am saying.

Suing is not as easy as they make it look on tv. Even IF you win your case, that doesn't mean you will ever collect a cent.
I was once going to sue the Ford Motor Company. I was 100% cent in the right, but my lawyer told me to be prepared to bring him every cent I had, and that it would still not be enough. Even if I could bring him the amount of money he would need, and the case was won, it would not be during my lifetime.

If you want ANY kind of freedom, you are going to have to live on an isolated island somewhere, or south of the border in the US of A. Wait...maybe Russia...I believe they have more freedom these days than we do...

I don't think I'd be the only one against having
my tax dollars directed to supporting your "cause". Good luck with the ticket but don't make more enemies than friends.

yeah get the oem one and take some pictures, present it in court and i think your good to go, that's exactly what the officer said for my ticket,

but its been 5 months no court date yet , I got mine in the Kipling and Rexdale area, so i guess Toronto is busy or something

That's crazy, that long? frack, it's a $110 ticket

yeah I didn't pay or anything yet, and after that ticket I got pulled over many times but the ticket didn't show up in their computers when they checked my driving history

Question though, if I get pulled over again for an exhaust ticket, do I have an X amount of days to "switch over my exhaust"?

Highly, Highly doubt it... Just play it low key. If you see a police behind you, pull into a plaza, and walk into a store, its easier. Lol..

I got my exhaust tested today, it's below the 83db federal limit at both idle and at cruising rpms. lol

It takes 6 months to get the court date in the mail, and then it's for another 6 months in advance. Total time = 12 months.

That's pretty ridiculous.

no there is no number of days lol, they will give you another ticket i guess, get a fake bill of sale made that you have ordered the exhaust, and then if you get pulled over be like i didnt have time to install it yet but i have the exhaust at home, ive been doing that for a while now

The thing is, I wont get harassed again, and I'm keeping my decibel reading from the shop as well as a print out showing the federal DB limit in my car, so if I get pulled over again for it, I will show them that it's not. Maybe on hard accel it cane be, but they would have to pull over everything from motor cycles to city buses.

improper muffler is no points .. i dunno wtf your stressing about.

its a real easy ticket to beat .. and even if you loose you only pay $130

http://www.ticketcombat.com/

It's not the points, it's the principle. I don't like getting fucked around by some bitch ass cop

I just watched the video - it does seem kinda loud with all that popping, so I can see why you were singled out.
It's still a bullshit ticket.
I'm staying out of Durham

The camera on my phone is really really bad it seems. I will make one with my actual cam. It was actually decibel tested at less than 10db the limit. Was like 75 at cruising rpms and 69 at idle.

And when a Harley DAvidson and a 79 Camaro with straight pipes drives past us and he's still following me and doesn't go after them. I got singled out because it's a brightish blue rhd car with a 23 year old guy driving it

I hate to be an ass, but when you buy a jap car your asking for trouble
Weather its a civic that closely resembles the millennium falcon or the nicest RHD car YOU ARE GOING TO GET HARASSED!
Your down to 2 options IMHO
Sacrifice a bit of performance and run stock exhaust
Or
Fracking suck it up, its a modified car
Im sick of hearing cop stories

Oh I'm sucking it up and going to court, then filing a complaint.

It's profiling what they are doing and it's against the law. Not to mention it's harassment for him to follow me constantly for 20 minutes. Either pull me over, or frack off.

And you STILL think you have a shot in hell of getting JUSTICE? This is ONTARIO...Grease up and bend over..you HAVE NO RIGHTS!!
To believe otherwise is just plain stupid.
If you DO file the complaint, I am going to enjoy reading about how your life will be HELL every day from then on, and I will be laughing my head off about it.

I am sorry, I have never even met you, but if you file that complaint, please get neutered also...you would have proven yourself to be too stupid to be allowed to breed..

Hilarious...."I am filing a complaint because what the cops are doing (profiling and harrassment) is against the law"....and this complaint is against who? the cops? and this complaint is filed with who?.....the cops? and investigated by who?.....the cops? Ya, you will win, go for it...

Doesn't matter if I will win Ziggy. I wont just bend over and take it up the ass like everyone else does. Everyone else doing it is why we have our system the way it is. Pleading guilty was actually something bribed to you by the court system back in the day, and that is not right.

I dunno about you Ziggy, but I would rather breed a kid with my genes that wont take this sh!t, that will stand up for our civilian rights, rather than breed with your genes where they just give up and get buttfucked over everything. The reason why Ontario is like this is because of people who think and act like you.

If I had done something wrong, had a cut out on my exhaust, been speeding, changing lanes with no blinker, while listening to frack the Police by NWA, then I would rightfully accept me being pulled over, and ticketed. I think most of the cops these days (around here), don't care about a muffler, but there's the odd cop, on a bad day who pulls over anyone with an import that isn't completely stock. And if I have a completely legal exhaust system, setup and sound, so as far as I'm concerned, he can go frack himself. Complaint will be getting filed.

Not trying to be a dick or anything, just a legit question I think. Brandon, you do realize that there is such a violation of the HTA affectionately called an "Improper Muffler" charge which has nothing to do with a dB noise reading, right? I think Jeff Mitchell referred to it very eary in this thread.

I ask only because you seem to be constantly referring to your dB readings being under some specific limit. For the purposes of an "Improper Muffler" charge, the dB reading (or whether it was taken, etc) is irrelevant. As I say, Jeff references the relevant lines in the HTA so you can check that and confirm for yourself.

The reason I keep referring to it is because that is why the cop said he pulled me over. And I quote "your muffler is a little too loud". That's what he said after he asked me if I knew why he pulled me over.

Now if he pulled me over and said my "muffler is a little too loud", but gave me the wrong ticket, then this should have no problem getting thrown out of court.

Brandon, I USED to be like you...but years of being the ONLY one fighting has taught me how futile it is. My head hurts constantly from all the times I beat it against a wall. I am just trying to save you some pain. No-one else will join your fight. They will all encourage you, but you will STILL be the only one fighting, and they will STILL bend you over..just not willingly. Go ahead and carry the torch for a while, but you have been warned...you WILL pay dearly for it.

I completely agree Ziggy. But at least if I put in this complaint, it'll be something that I know is right. Whether it's a "smart" move or not.

So here's a question for you Brandon.

Was the cop in any way rude, disrespectful, unprofessional or arrogant in any way shape or form?

Did he belittle you, minimise you or blatantly disrespected you because you drive an "import" car, a RHD or any other reason why you were pulled over?

You say they are "profiling" because you drive a "modified car" that's RHD (A nice car mind you but that's beside the point). Guess what? Every person who gets pulled over for an "Improper Muffler" is someone driving a "modified car". You don't see soccer moms being pulled over for improper muffler do you? But, bet you dollars to donughts, if you bought a minivan and slapped a fart can on it, you're going to be noticed.

It's a risk you take. Taylor said it best. Either you suck it up, pay the fine and go on about life, or you put a stock exhaust back on the fuckin thing. Do you think DRP is going to be on the lookout for "A blue RHD MR-2 that has an exhaust system... watch out y'all!!! He's got the debil in his bloodz!!"

No.

You know WHY people on here like Strelecki, Giz, Myself, and a few others run a Magnaflow dual-tipped stock appearing muffler? To keep below the radar. Does it sacrifice performance? Sure! A whole whopping 2 hp. Not even enough to notice.

Why is the law there? Why shouldn't we be able to change our exhaust systems and run whatever kind of muffler we want. Hell, we drive turbo cars, why even run an exhaust system? Phuck it, let's put a 4" pipe out the side of the bumper, we don't need no stinkin back pressure!

Yeah, and the next time some ricer kid comes flying by you with that obnoxious "BRRRAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPP *pop* *pop* *pop* " on the back of their civic, or some dude with 4 10" subs blasting Slayer through your neighbourhood at 2AM, you can be the judge on that one.

You get pissed at the bikers? You've got your window down and some dude on a Harley rips by you doing a buck five, and you cringe at the sound of the exhaust. Aha! The shoe is on the other foot. You have to see it from the other side. Personally, I hate it when some dude with his hot ass girlfriend (Because you know these guys in the cavy's usually have a hot ass girlfriend next to then) rips by me on the streets with his foot to the floor, or whatever, I just want to go over there and shove a potato into his exhaust and watch what happens!

The law always wins Brandon. Suck it up and deal with it. Put something on it that's a little quieter or go back to stock. Either way, there isn't anything you can do. Should it have come to Canada like that? Maybe, maybe not. Fact is it did, and some Police officer (and I know first hand there's a LOT that goes into choosing them) believes your exhaust is a nuisance to the general public (it is kinda loud).

Fight it, definitely, save you some cash! But you drive a rare, modified, RHD, Electric Blue sports car, and you're young. It's the same thing as running naked through a shopping mall, you're going to be noticed, and you bought it so you could be.

I'm sure you've been noticed by more than just cops, and in a good way. However, you've been noticed by police, deal with it.

/rant

P.S: Ziggy........... *tsk* *tsk* *tsk*

I don't get pissed at the bikers, I don't care what exhaust noise your car puts out, and I don't care how loud someone elses exhaust is. And I actually love the noise a Harley or Muscle car puts out. But when a Harley and a Muscle car both pass me with the cop following me and he stays on my ass, that's where it's profiling and harassment. My dad's Harley is super loud, sets off alarms on cars that he passes if he opens the choke enough. The thing is LOUD. He has had it like that for the last 5 years, and not one single ticket. That is bullshit, and that should not be allowed. He rides on the same streets as me when he comes home from work. And the fact is that if my dad was right beside a police officer, he wouldn't get pulled over. And that is not right in the least.

So, I wont change my 3" turbo back exhaust back to stock, because I shouldn't have to change a proper working exhaust system that isn't loud as shown by my decibel test. Granted on the camera phone video it sounds loud just because it distorts the mic. It doesn't south anything like a regular exhaust because it's so short and hollow.

I dunno man, I think what they do is wrong, and if filing a complaint is all I can do about it, then frack it, I will file a complaint.

Although, when I get my Berk exhaust, it will be less noticeable, since it's still dual pipes, just thicker out lets, and will be less of an attention grabber

I got a ticket for excessive noise when I was running a Magnaflow Single tip muffler (big and chrome).
Got followed all the time by the police, or they tried to follow or turn around to follow me etc.

I paid the ticket and got fed up so I stuck the stock muffler (TSI) on, it's still loud, but I don't get looked at at all now.

It's the style that attracts them more than the noise I think.

Meh, frack em

Also, the reason I bought the car is not to get noticed, but because buying jdm means you get rust free, low km car that costs half the price of buying one in the same condition up here

Also, the MR2 is one of the best cars ever made (imo). 3S-GTE motor is bullet proof, and 50/50 weight distribution is a huge seller, not to mention good gas mileage and cheap to fill!

$40 to fill from the idiot light, and 450km per tank

Yea yeah, you were saying that about the 4G63 too.......

I still say that about the 4G63, love DSMs to death.