Hey guys i swapped in a jdm 7bolt engine into my talon and it cranks over but doesnt want to start. the timing belt was just done and im getting spark and fuel. It cranks but slowly dies like its jamming on something? The starter was just replaced with what looks like a rebuilt one..

Before i did the timing belt again for the second time it was cranking over fine but the timing was way off.. Would a bent valve have something to do with this?

The car is a 1995 tsi awd with the non adjustable cam and crank angle sensors.. Im thinking it may just be a bad ground?

Heres a link to the video..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFqo3w1mWSY

I am not expert, but wouldn't a power steering belt that is too tight cause this? Not allowing proper rotation/spin?

Hmmm would it really? I do remember making sure that all my belt were nice and tight maybe I tightened it too much? Is that even possible lol?

A power steering pump belt being too tight can cause a lot of damage. I have seen crankshafts break from a belt being too tight! It puts too much tension on the crankshaft and they snap.

Have it checked again!

A belt being too loose will cause a loud squeal and possible no power assist.

It's hard to describe how tight the belt should be. You get to know the tension from expierence.
The best way would be be tight like a guitar string, but not too tight.

Take it to a professional and have him check it.
or maybe it might be something different.

I was just throwing out a guess.

Fair enough, I will try that out tomorrow morning and see if she will fire up. Hopefully that is all that will need to be done however it is a dsm.. lmao

Like I said, I am not expert, but I am sure that our friends... Rob's, Ryan's, Paul's, Ziggy's will help out.

It does seem to be getting a bit stuck. I agree with Will - loosen the belts and give it another try.

Are you sure you have the right firing order?

If you get it cranking good again, do a compression test.

I am no expert either, but I didn't think it was turning over THAT slow...maybe just a slightly weak battery?

No signs of firing, though...are you SURE you are getting spark and fuel??? and at the right times??

Also, did the motor come from an auto? I think there is a spacer ring in the crank that has to be removed.

Watched the video again and it should be cranking enough for a compression test as it is.

That little slow down should not keep it from starting.

but that wouldn't explain why it would crank fast first time, then not later, would it?

Just to clarify, I did the timing on this car. The timing belt itself isn't installed to tight. Can you rotate the crank by hand with a socket wrench??

This looks like a weak battery, weak starter, maybe even the power steering/alternator belt is to tight.

Try boosting the battery with jumper cables. What is the votage at the battery right now? How do your grounds look?

Also double check to see that the firing order is correct.

Then neither would the PS belt
I think if you slow it down overall, the compression stroke will seem very slow, since it is slow in the first place.

I think that is what Will was saying....not that the timing belt was too tight, but the accessory belts. I think it is turning over quick enough there should have been SOME attempt to fire though. I suspect there are a lot of smaller problems...possibly belts too tight, possibly weak battery, but I am also guessing something not right with spark and fuel..

I just noticed it is connected with jumper cables. I also heard a little pop at the end of the video.

Could some bent valves be slowing down the rotation?

ROTATE the crack by hand!! how hard does it rotate?

I rotated it by hand and it is pretty hard too...

It was hooked up to booster cables as my battery died and it is from a manual car as i just put a new clutch in.

Was the #1 cylinder at tdc when we did it James? could it be at bdc and causing it not to fire?

how does it rotate without any extra belts attached? like power steering/ac/alternator. Disconnect them all, then check the grounds on the starter and try cranking again.

Also, is the car in neutral for sure??

All the timing marks were lined up fine, there is no reason why it shouldn't fire.

Pulls the plugs, see if they smell like fresh gas.

Check to see if you have spark also.

How much oil is in the crankcase?

Okay i will remove the belt and try it tomorrow.

It doesnt have ac and was easy to crank it over with a socket when you did it? I will check the grounds on the starter as well as make sure the ps belt is a bit looser

Also i will make sure tomorrow to double check everything and yes i had spark as we pulled one plug and it sparked. it was also getting fuel as one of the o rings wasnt on and the 3rd injector was leaking so i pulled the rail (this was before we did the timing belt).

Nick, you can check for TDC if you want to make sure. Line the timing marks up with the cam dowels at 12 o clock and pull the #1 spark plug. The piston should be visibly at the top.

Okay, also could I have any bent valves? I did the timing belt myself some time ago before james re-did it and I was off quite a bit and I'm just wondering could it have bent a valve or more? It never started but I cranked it over a few times.. it was getting spark and fuel then.

Yes you could have damage. Do a compression test. If the timing is correct and the compression is bad, the motor has to come apart.

I know this has already been mentioned, but I didn't notice if you actually checked or not:
check your firing order of the spark plugs, make sure they are connected in the proper sequence...I had the exact same problem on a rebuild, took me a day to figure out it was only order of the spark plug wires...

I find though when wires are reversed you do get some of that 'irregular' cranking, but usually some "farting" along with it, as it tries to fire at the wrong times..

That's true, mine would crank over irregularly, then "pop" or "fart" like you said when I stopped cranking...it would be nice if this was his problem, but it does perhaps appear more timing related

Acutally when I stopped cranking there was a pop noise.

Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it as this is my first 4G63 and I'm still learning lol

I will update this when I get home from work tonight and pull the accessory belts and figure out if it truely was at tdc or if there are any bent valves.

sure sounds like reversed wires then. That can also cause the "irregular" cranking

Nick before you go through the hassle of pulling those belts and checking timing, I would ensure your firing order is right.....if it is timing, then the valves are likely already bent, so I don't think you are likely to do MORE damage by checking the firing order and giving that a try first....let us know how you make out....what reference have you been using to check firing order, do you have manual or anything?

Mike

Would having 1g wires on a 2g make any difference?

I just got some accel wires from a friend who owns a 1g but I swapped my 2g wires back on and I'm using a haynes manual for reference

I checked the timing and made sure everything lined up i pulled the #1 spark plug and stuck a screw driver down it to make sure #1 cylinder was at tdc and it is.

Im gonna crank it over tonight once my battery is charged and i loosened the belts as Will suggested

1G and 2G wiresets are interchangeable. They may not be the same length but they'll get the job done either way.

Because of the swap, your firing order might not match what's in the Haynes manual. I don't have all the details to know if you'd be affected or not. Maybe someone can post up or it might be out there in the Googles.

can you post a picture of how the wiring it hooked up.


Coilpack should be labelled

4-1-2-3

Nick, I if you want I can give you my compression tester next time I see you, maybe tomorrow on my way to work on my 1992.

But like he said, the problem came up after the timing has been re-done. Before, it would crank just like a normal car should. And yes, we are using jumper cables which are connected to my 1G outside.

Check your belts, and if you really want, rotate the crank with a wrench and see if you get any interferance. However, do not comfuse this for the compression strokes of the engine.

Also, we tested for spark prior to the incident, and it is getting spark, as well as fuel. You can smell it coming out of the exhaust, or lack of lol.

I got a few more videos if you guys need updated, basically of the car doing the same sh!t.

If the timing marks line-up and the engine is visibly sitting at TDC, then the problem has nothing to do with timing. You cannot make a timing belt to tight.

I'm surprised you guys cranked the engine before, without triple checking the timing.

The notch on the crank was on the other side when I looked at it.

Hopefully the valves aren't bent, but I think a compression test might show that they are. That resistance might be the result of some bent valves.

Okay to update this I loosened the accessory belts and they are within spec.

I boosted the car from Lucians so the battery was fully charged and it cranked over but did the same thing..

Im going to do a compression test tomorrow to rule out if I do have bent valves..

What we noticed is that when I cranked it over it sounded like it backfired but didnt start. It would crank then come to that certain spot and slow down.

We pulled the plugs and #1 plug seemed to be dry but the other 3 were wet with gas. Ccould using really old gas cause a no start? this gas is pretty old(1yr+) and im going to drain it tomorrow and put fresh 91 in. How would I drain the gas? since there is no drain bolt and my car doesnt start so disconnecting the line before the fuel rail and draining from that is a no go.

I still think your firing order is wrong. The backfire means the gas is igniting, but in the wrong place or at the wrong time. That also causes the irregular cranking (the slowing down). My 2g does EXACTLY that if I switch the ECU to the earlier years without reversing the spark plug wires.

I know I am beating a dead horse here, but I would bet my left nut that it's firing order also...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/maintenance-repairs/10465-firing-order-merged-5-7-a.html

Try this link, there's a couple of different combinations mentioned depending on if you've done an engine swap, etc...I put a 1G 7 bolt in my '95, and had to swap the plugs for firing order, just can't remember exactly which plugs.....you describe what my problem was exactly! I changed the wires on the coil pack, and VRROOOMMMM VRROOMMMMM

I wasn't there when they did the timing the first time around, so I'm not taking the heat for it

I got the compression tester in my car today, so we should have results by the end of the day.

I'm with Mike on this one, but seems no-one is confirming the firing order?

Yes, the problem could be the old gas.

To drain the gas you can disconnect a fuel line near the fuel rail and then activate the fuel pump. You just need battery to run the pump. The fuel pump can be activated with a logger or with the test connector under the hood. I suppose you could also jump wires on the sending unit.

not to stir sh!t up but when i walked the crank in my sentra ser spec-v, thats eactly what it did drop your oil pan check if there's any chunks of metal cause i did lol was not funny at the time. I didn;t even have any warning it happened just drove it to work, came out and started it up drove it about 3 kms and it was dead.

i hope it's not crank walk but boost it if it still cranks like sh!t like yours does when being boosted somethings bad.

The firing order in this engine should be stock.

JDM 2g 7 bolt engine with 95'style cam+ crank sensors, and he has a 95 eprom ecu.

Firing order on the coilpack is 4-1-2-3 and you just follow the wires.

4 goes to cylinder 4 (the one on the left hand side) and 1 goes to the cylinder closest to the drivers side.

2 and 3 wires go to the two middle cylinders.

Please post a picture with the wires installed in this order.