I have been running Snow's progessive system with a 625ml nozzle before the TB. I am planning on upgrading to a higher pressure pump and dual nozzle.

I have a BW S256 50 trim and am thinking a 2gh nozzle pre turbo.

For those of you that are doing this, what size nozzle are you running pre-turbo (vs turbo size) and where are you mounting it?

Mount it about 6-10" away from the turbo.

You should also only inject water into the turbo, as the meth can react/eat at the compressor wheel.

The meth will evaporate before hitting the wheel. and any times that the fluid will come in contact with the wheel and not evaporate will not stick around long enough to eat away at the wheel.
Inject whatever mixture you want, but water has better heat dissipation.

I thought of just pure water pre turbo...but didnt want to run 2 whole seperate systems.

With regard to nozzle placement, is not better to aim it directly at the wheel to prevent pooling on the sides of intake pipe and larger droplets hitting the turbine?

Meth will eat at the wheel, not in the physical sense from the impact of the meth, but the chemical reaction that takes place with the Aluminum Oxide coating on the compressor wheel and the meth. It will form Methyloxide Salts, and eventually wear the coating down to a nil, in turn leaving your nice aluminum free to be eaten even more.

In saying that, the goal of pre-turbo water injection is not to increase fueling, but to increase compressor efficiency and removing heat right? Water has the best heat absorbtion and a higher surface tension, allowing it to pull more heat away from the intake tract. Heat absorbion and vaporization are the key players with this mod.

Meth has a lower surface tension, allowing it to vaporize faster than water, but not take as much heat with it. In saying this, once you reach 100% saturation, you lose the ability to pull heat out of the system. Meth will still evaporate in 100% saturation.

Matt, the speed in which the compressor sucks the air in, your PT-WI won't be on unless you are spooling up, so I wouldnt' worry about water pooling in the intake, it will be sucked in through the turbo, or evaporate.

The turbo buick guys have been correctly injecting mixtures of meth for years without killing their wheels.

water in theory will be better at removing heat.

If your so worried about it corroding the alumnium maybe people should stop injecting it into their alumnium intercooler pipes, throttle body, intake mani, and their head.

I am no expert at this but personally I would throw a meth mixture at my wheel anyday without worries. But then again I have yet to run it, so take it how you will.

Matt, I'd suggest a 1gph nozzle pre-turbo. That's what Devil's Own always recommends.

I agree with Mike regarding meth corroding the aluminum pre-turbo. It's not an issue, otherwise everyone's aluminum IC pipes would be failing. While it's true that water's heat absorption properties are better for pre-turbo injection, I don't see it warranting a second pump/tank if you want to run meth post-turbo. Just use a 50/50 mix for both.


Just to share.... Here's the setup I was running initially:

• OEM rear windshield washer reservoir, to...
• 150 PSI shurflo pump, to...
• Check Value in engine compartment, immediately followed by...
• Y Union Instant Fitting, split into two 12" lines going to...
• One pre-turbo DO1 Nozzle in the intake pipe, and
• One post-turbo D03 Nozzle in the intercooler outlet.
• 50/50 methanol & deionized water mix.

Within short order, I noticed inducer blade damage to my turbo:


click to enlarge

While hitting low boost (before the pump is triggered), the positive pressure at the post-turbo nozzle was forcing the water/meth back through the tubing, though the Y-Union and out the pre-turbo nozzle (which would be experiencing vacuum). Obviously there would not be enough pressure to atomize this water/meth, so it'd just dribble out the pre-turbo nozzle, and pool at the bottom of the intake pipe until enough vacuum was created to suck the liquid into the compressor blades turning at 250,000 RPM... SMASH! Removing the intake pipe revealed a sizable puddle of liquid pooled at the turbo coupler.

I've since removed the pre-turbo nozzle, but plan to hook it back up with a DO solenoid right in front of it. I also plan to relocate the nozzle as close to the turbo inlet as possible to minimize fallout. And while I'm at it, I'll install another DO3 nozzle at the throttle body elbow.

So the theory is pre-turbo will shift the compressor map of my Big28, making it flow like a larger turbo but without the lag. The post-intercooler nozzle's purpose is to cool the intake air temperature. and the pre-throttlebody nozzle is to get some meth/water in the combustion chamber where it'll cool / clean / increase octane.

Would a check valve right before the pre turbo nozzle not accomplish the same thing? The crack point is 16psi, so unless you have more than 16psi of boost pushing it from the post turbo nozzle, it shouldn't leak.

That was my initial thought as well, but research has shown that check valves still allow the nozzle to dribble a little when the pump turns off and the line pressure bleeds down. That's fine for post-turbo injection as the volume is negligible, but for pre-turbo we want *zero* dribbling. The solenoid cuts off flow instantly, so it should prevent that. And it only cost $15 more than a check valve.

solenoid it is then:)

Anyone have any logs before and after installation of a pre-turbo nozzle?

Matt, hurry up and get your running so I can copy what you bought and install it on my T25 car.

here is what you want

I saw that bottom set up on Devils Own forum. I don't see anything like that for sale on thier website. I wonder if I get something like that from a hydraulics shop?

Does that not seem a bit close though?

^^^
I think that's the same picture from something I read before. If so, that's a furnace burner nozzle.

Home Depot Racing FTW

looks like a flux capacitor to me?

upon further inspection it is clearly a continu'um transfunctioner