Sold me a broken transmission and refuses to respond concering the issue. Gave more than a month to respond via PM and email before making any kind of post.

More details here -> http://ca.dsm.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=341062#Post341062

Jim

Sh!tty deal, Jim. Hopefully the seller provides some sort of compensation eventually...

Yeah we'll wait and see on this one....I can vouch for the POOR CONDITION this transmission was in when it came apart, busted teeth all over the place, center diff housing wasn't even fit for a rebuild, and the intermediate shaft was in bad shape as well.

Jim is a stand-up guy who has never done anyone wrong, either on this board or locally, and he gave the seller a lot of time to respond to him in private before taking it to this forum. Hopefully Chris realizes that reputation is pretty important around here...

Mmmm; Shifter like butter...

Chris??? Anything to say about that???

I remember his post! I want it to buy this tranny to keep it as a spare! Chris we all make mistakes! I think you should refund the money + shipping cost!

Outch, sorry to hear, that's an expensive paperweight both for actual price and shipping. Hope you guys figure out a way to resolve the problem amicably.

Ah that sucks.. Hope Chris can man up and refund you the money.

Usually a sign of a sketchy seller is when they take their sweet time to answer their PM's.

Or even worse, when they come on the site and post after the PM's, and you can see that they read the PM's, yet still no response...

Yeah but that's usually after they screw someone over.

Before I bought the tranny I searched the good guy/bad guy list and didn't find anything, as I am newer to this board and have sold a few things with no feedback online I gave the benefit of doubt, this board has a great selling/buying reputation and with no feedback, one could assume no bad dealings were committed. PM's were prompt during sale. I knew if someone looked me up for feedback when I was selling items they wouldn't find much as a result of being newer to the board,but there are ppl on here who can vouch for my honesty. Everything I've sold went smooth despite no feedback and I thank the ppl who bought from me.

thanks to all for the comments, hopefully a response will follow

Should be banned if he does not respond, especially posting after the fact.

Admins, hopefully we can protect other members by taking appropriate actions if no reply/response is made within a week or so.

While I stand behind Jim completely on this one, I don't think that its the responsibility of the admins to be banning members in response to buy/sell transactions that go sour. Now I'm sure there'll always be exceptions but for the most part, the "hands off" policy that the mods on this board take towards the transactions in the swap meet forum seems to work rather well.

We all assume a risk as buyers AND sellers. Jim is out a couple hundred $$$, chris lost what I'm assuming was a good reputation... nobody wins here though Jim clearly pulled the shorter straw on this one. BUT, this is an open forum and although people are encouraged to behave, we should really stay away from the idea of micro-managing members ... That's eerily reminiscent of another board that I won't mention (it starts with a 'f' and ends with an 'orcepower') who bans anyone and everyone, having taken member management to a whole 'nother level. I'll probably earn a ban just for writing this!!

Anyway, that's my unsolicited $.02.

how about all members donate a dollar or more to help out Jim with the loss? Kinda like insurance against BG. Considering the ratio between GG and BG it should work

Sounds like a great idea to me.

I'm in.

Insurance from the GGs to help combat the BGs.

Dude you had your Wheaties this morning didn't you?

I like the idea, it has good intentions, but the logistics of it may not work out!

I don't think Jim is looking for a handout from the board, moreso he wants A RESPONSE from Chris, at least some form of acknowledgement, but so far it looks like that is not going to happen.

And I can see where you are coming from Mark, I do not believe it's the moderators responsibility to ban members for situations they can't outright prove, but if a member knowingly ignores a claim such as this, and then comes on the board after the fact and goes on about his business like nothing has happened, then that's borderline grounds for banning IMO.

Every situation is unique. BG behaviour has definitely resulted in bans! It is rare, however, and probably attributed to the fact that these BGs don't usually stick around after burning their bridges.

Jim obviously has the support of this community, so if Chris does not put forward some effort I imagine nature will run its course..

What Mike said, I know as much as anyone else, internet transactions have their chances, and I'm not in anyway holding it against the board, but to prevent it from happening again. If I had messaged the seller and a week later posted, I could see someone thinking there wasn't enough time to respond, but it's been over a month, several different contact methods,and seller has posted since with no response, so i think the silence speaks for itself and this was in fact a knowingly busted part that was sold.

^ agreed, and this is why the GG/BG section is for.
I don't believe this board will allow someone to continue being a member knowingly they've wronged someone as your self in this case.

I would of saved my self A LOT of money & time having signed up on this board & reviewing this section prior to buying my 1st DSM.

BUT, both sides of the story must be heard, I'm not defending Chris or anything and like you said a month is more than enough time to respond. But then again, a lot can happen in a month.

More than likely, Chris will leave on his own. His reputation is now shot. Good luck trying to sell another item or ask for help when you disrespected/screwed a board member over.

Haven't seen a BG post in awhile, so I think we're close to weeding out all the douchebags.

Agreed. I would also vouch for Jim being a good guy, and this is EXACTLY what this forum is for. Unfortunately, there are no guarantees, and for someone to "earn" his BG designation, SOMEONE has to get screwed first.....looks like this time Jim's name came up...

Would LOVE to see some sort of way the board re-imburses this...but I agree the logistics are probably too difficult. It would require some sort of payment from each member, and that alone I think would cause problems. Maybe we need different levels of membership status? Some sort of "elite" membership, that offers protection from bad deals (at least to a certain point), and maybe has other perks....but requires an annual payment of some set amount...Then those who WANT this protection and are willing to PAY FOR this protection could have it..

More directly related.....anyone on here KNOW this Chris Thornton guy? Anyone on here talked to him about it?

And if you make a claim, your premium goes up!

I'd prefer that there were no idiots and therefore no insurance policy needed. At least we are relatively close to that ideal on our forums..

My thoughts exactly until I seen the seller make more for sale posts after the fact.

yeah well when things like this happen it makes everyones wallet pucker just a little more.
I definitely would like to thank those that I have dealt with on here for being up front honest and great to deal with. I strive to be the same way.

Good luck to you chris ever trying to sell anything on this board ever again. Your name goes down in douche history forever now.

Okay this tranny did shift fine. it was in the car i have now. when i got the car it was not running. i was told there was something wrong with the timming so i got everything fixed and the car running. i took it around the block a few times and the motor started knocking bad so the car was parked the motor and tranny was taking out. the seller of the car said the there was nothing wrong with the tranny, when i was driving it there was no problems what so ever. i am sorry if that is what you found when you took it apart. i have sold alot of stuff on here and to have this come up, and you telling me i have to give you your money back and the shipping, when i told you i did not even want to ship but i went out of my way to get it ready and waited all day for them to come pick the tranny up. i dont know you at all. i dont know where the tranny has been, and i should just take your word for it? When you have had it since oct last year and i just got an email 4 weeks ago about it ? i am sorry but it was AS-IS and it did shift fine when i had it. i have no way of knowing what has been done, or where is has been. this is why i like anyone who buys from me to come to my house and look everything over, so i dont have this problem. if you want to take me off the site for this? like try and see where i am comming from.

There is always two sides to every story...

I am not trying to take sides here....BUT.....

It seems the entire basis for this "tranny shifts fine" business is what was said by a PREVIOUS SELLER, plus two trips around the block. Even then, Chris would obviously have been worrying about the knock and not even paying attention to the tranny.

If a previous seller screwed Chris, that doesn't make it OK for him to screw the next guy. Your reputation should be worth a lot more than a tranny.

Now, since Chris didn't KNOWINGLY screw Jim, how about some sort of compromise. How about Chris returns the money for the tranny, and consider the loss a lesson in not believing everything you are told by a seller, and Jim is out the shipping, that cost being a reminder of the cost of buying used parts and the associated risks.

Not something I'm denying.

Finally a REPLY! took you a Long time to come up with this lame BS!
To start, this post would not of been here yet if you didn't ignore me for almost 6 weeks! And making more posts after the fact, you knew this tranny was a dud and didn't want to admit it.

SO for one, you said in the post, Shifts like new, not once during the sale did you tell me you drove it "around the block" a few times and that was ALL your assessment of shifting like new was based on, or the fact that you were taking someone else’s word for it that it shifted like new. When it comes to a tranny, and making a statement of “shifts like new”, newsflash
"around the block” with a car not running right DOESN'T qualify as the basis for making a statement of SHIFTS LIKE NEW. If you still have the car, why did you sell the tranny? last I checked you need one for a car to be mobile with an engine. This tranny was DAMAGED, it wouldn't have shifted like new in this condition, you can say all you want about the time frame, but until I actually either A inspected it inside, which I done or B drove with it, I couldn't make any post on the condition, the fact it sat in my shed until I needed to send the center diff away explains the time frame. I’m sure I even told you I needed tha tranny for the 2011 season as I broke mine and was building a new engine. The original engine has been out of my car since September and the new block on an engine stand, (which I got from a member on here)making my car NOT mobile since then so no worries the tranny never got installed and bagged on, plus I have many witnesses to CONFIRM that.

When did I ever TELL you that you needed to give the money back? get your facts straight, check the posts, emails and PM's, I never once said that! My original PM was
“Hey Chris,

just wanted to give you an fyi on the tranny you sold me, took it apart last night to have the center diff sent away and there were teeth damaged on the intermediate shaft, center diff, and reverse gear from what I could see, I didn't go much further once I seen all of that.

Jim”

however, someone who sold junk, I guess the right thing to do would be a refund, as most forum members seem to think the same way but you got your money in your pocket, I got a paper weight. I even paid you MORE money than asking price, paid you for all the shipping materials, arranged the pick up of the tranny so you didn't have to go out of your way at all, you specifically told me you'd be home all day so it could be picked up. Coming to your house wouldn't have made a difference in this tranny, unless someone took it apart in front of you, the tranny outside looked fine, the INTERNALS were damaged.

Anyhow, you obviously in denial, you ignored me for 6 weeks and willingly admitted it on here, you knew it was damaged which is why you sold it and why you ignored me and your lame ass reply and delay in reply suggests the same.

Good luck with selling anything else on this board, unless you man up and prove to be a decent guy and issue a refund, I doubt anyone else will buy from you.

Jim

Transmissions components can be worn out and still shift fine.

I know I have a few problems with my transmission, but it still shifts fine.

If the buyer never installed the tranny, and just opened it up to see worn components - you'll never know forsure if the seller was sincere in saying it shifts like new.

It may have or may not have been shifting fine. Chris has been here since 2004 and continues to still post, I don't think he would kill his rep...

Its a crappy outcome for both.....

The gear oil would suggest some kind of damage, as i'm sure there's pcs down there, I'll tear it down and get pics to post, no worries, and a drive around the block doesn't suffice for a proper determination of Shifts like new. Sorry.

I'm not taking sides here but for what its worth, damaged teeth on the intermediate shaft, center diff, and a fucked up reverse idler gear (which every single DSM tranny I have opend up has), have NOTHING to do with how a tranny shifts. If anything you might hear some gear noise or whine with broken teeth. If you didn't go much further into the tranny how do you know how good the syncros, dog teeth on the gears, and the hub/sliders are ?

These are the components that affect shifting. In all W5M33 trannies that I have opened up, ALL have play in the shafts, some have broken teeth, most have worn out syncros, gears and hub/sliders, and guess what ? Most of them shifted fine.

I understand that the teeth are broken, but the 3 things that you stated were worn/broken have nothing to do with the way a tranny shifts.

I'm just going with the facts posted above. Neither Chris nor you seem to know much about the way a tranny works. If Chris doesn't dig into trannies the way I do, how would he know the teeth are broken. I would have opened up the tranny as soon as I got it instead of waiting a year.

Anyways, I hope you guys figure it. If it was me who sold someone a trans for $250, I would have returned the money. After half a year ? I'm not sure, but if I said I would have, I would stick to my word. JMHO

reza,
It was the intial findings, as stated in the PM to Chris in my above post, I seen that and went no further and contacted the seller as I was not impressed with the intial findings. It's only after 6 weeks of being avoided and the seller posting on this board after the emails and PM's that the post was made.(I even sent him a PM notifying him I would make a post, once I had enough of being ignored) Teeth broken would have left some sort of indication in the gear oil as every tranny I have ever taken out with damage, minor or serious did. I've had trannie's apart, I've repaired, tore down, replaced parts, in my colt and talon.

The fact the seller ignored me and refused to respond and the shifts like new comment was taken from a drive around the block with a bad engine is an issue with me, this was never brought to my attention upon buying, or that he was taking info from another seller on the same tranny, what I was told was that it was used by the seller, lows km's and shifted like new.

Bottom line I won't be beating this to death much longer, I'll tear down, get pics and post. The fact is I still need a tranny to get my car mobile for this race season. If anyone has one or can help me in getting some good parts to repair mine please PM me

I understand your point and you basically bought this tranny for the center diff and intermediate shaft which both happen to have damage. I hope he refunds your money and your both happy.

I have trannies and enough parts to probably build you two good trannies if needed. You would have to come to Markham though, I'm not shipping to NF

I have taken apart lots of operating transmissions and found missing teeth and stuff like that. It happens. Not trying to stick up for anyone but I've seen it with my own eyes.

Just my two cents

We disassembled the transmission completely to check everything out in detail. We have no doubt that it shifted fine in his car for a drive around the block as all the sliders and synchros were fine, but there is a lot of damage on some key components rendering this transmission unusable.

Chris it would be nice if you'd offer Jim some sort of reimbursement, he doesn't expect you to pay back the full amount including the shipping, but it's unfair for him to take 100% of the loss on this.



Some debris:


Gouges in the case:



Had to break out the BIG BAR to get the tranny mount unbolted, impact gun wouldn't touch it!







[img]http://www.gregus.ca/pics/jim_trans_11.jpg[/img]

I just had mine out and it looked way worse than that and still shifted beautifully its hard to tell if a tranny is fine just by shifting.

I'm not taking sides, just giving you my .02 cents

Ya, looks like the damage to the internals could not have been known unless it was opened up. I am guessing that had Jim driven the car this tranny was in, he would have still bought it.

I think the only fair thing to do is some sort of PARTIAL refund...where both guys are out some, but not one guy out the entire amount....that would be my suggestion.

I have met Chris a couple times, and just talked to him very recently. He has also had some personal issues going on, that make this seem pretty UNimportant. Hopefully you guys can reach some sort of agreement...

^^^^ AGREED