Hey guys,

I have read a million different threads on clutch adjustment and bleeding, and I've seen the Jacks Transmission video on youtube, but I have an issue I wanted to run by you to see if anyone has some input:

I finished installing the clutch and bled the system, but it seems like there's a bit too much freeplay at the top of the pedal. The problem is that I also cannot push in on the slave cylinder right now, which would mean I need to thread the master cylinder rod away from the firewall more in order to not have the bleeder valve in the master cylinder blocked off. BUT, if I do that, I am only going to create more freeplay at the top of the pedal!

Anyone run into this before? The pedal feels good and is nice and firm, but I don't want the clutch dragging and wearing down on other components...any input is appreciated, thanks.

Mike

I am not sure if this is the fix to your problem, maybe someone can confirm it, but Ziggy sells a rod for the master that is longer than the stock and helps with the pedal travel. May work for your problem.

https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16139&cat=1410&page=1

Yeah I don't think that's what I need, I get loads of travel in the slave cylinder from what I can tell, and I've run heavy clutch pressure plates for years now without modifying the slave cylinder...I was leaning towards it being some sort of adjustment issue between the master cylinder rod or the clutch switch sensor behind the clutch pedal inside the car.

That rod doesn't fix any problems. His problem is different and he's already preloaded the clutch.

I wouldn't drive the car with the clutch preloaded. Back the rod off till you can press the slave piston in by hand, it might just be a turn or so. Then adjust your cruise control switch down to take up the free play.

Don't just thread the rod in at the exact point you lose the preload. Thread about a half turn more to be on the safe side. Master cylinder expands once the car warms up and it can preload again easily if the bleeder valve gets blocked off. I like to keep my clutch engaging at the highest point possible, without preloading the slave.

Thanks for that Reza, I will try that this evening. I haven't driven the car for that reason, I didn't want to damage any much more expensive parts!

So if I adjust the cruise control switch down (I.e. towards the forewall/master cylinder), I will have less free play up top?

Perfect, I'll let you know how I make out.

Mike

Yes adjust the cruise control switch down so that excessive free play is eliminated. I thinks its a 14mm jam nut. If you adjust it down too much you will preload again as you end up blocking off the port in the master. I like to keep mines at about 1/2 inch freeplay at the top so the pedal travel doesn't feel too sloppy.

Yes that's exactly what I want to see as well, right now I have more than an inch of free play up top, and compared to previous clutches I've had it feels sloppy, so hopefully these small adjustments will do the trick!

Alright, I am working at this right now, and it's driving me insane!

Tried bleeding the clutch again, and got a bit more air out. So I moved on to adjustment:
- adjusted master cylinder rod to point just before it closes off the valve inside the cylinder
- adjusted cruise switch inwards toward firewall to remove some free play on top of clutch pedal

Took the car for a drive and it felt good! Shifted smoothly, no grinding and clutch pedal felt really good. Pulled the car back in the garage, and went to make sure I could still push in on the slave cylinder rod, but now it was tight again So I turned the master cylinder rod counter-clockwise (away from firewall) for half turn, and now I am able to push in on slave cylinder, but the clutch feels like crap again and will not shift properly, and engages right off the floor.

So basically, I cannot get master cylinder adjustment to the point where it works properly, AND I am able to push in on the slave cylinder!!

WTF?!? I have a spare master cylinder to try, do you guys think that is my problem? I'm pretty rotted with this now, because it's the only thing keeping my car off the road, any help is appreciated (and the sooner the better, I'm in the garage while typing, ha-ha.

I have the same problem! I have tried adjusting and bleeding and my slave boot is wet so looks like I'll need a new slave..

I swapped in a known working master cylinder from my old car, just need to bleed and adjust it in the morning and see if that solves my problems!`

Got the new master installed and bled, and everything seems good to go, there must have been something up with the cylinder I took out, although I can't quite tell what it is!

Just out of curiosity, can some people chime in with symptoms they have seen before either a master or slave cylinder failed, ASIDE FROM LEAKAGE. Thanks

I was gonna say you may have had the free play adjusted down too much which caused it to preload again.

Was that other master an aftermarket one ?

Oem ones work better and provide more engagement. I've found the bleed hole to be slightly off in aftermarket units. That could have been it. I've also had a master cylinder go bad before it started leaking. I usually pull the boot off and if I can even catch a hint of a sweat, I change it. Its enough to throw the engagement off with a heavy pressure plate.

Both the master I took out, and the one that went back in (used from my old Talon, and not the original) were both "Nabco" brand, so I am not sure if they are OEM or not to be honest. If I find out that they're not OEM units, I am going to pick up a new OEM master and install that to be done with this!

So the OEM's actually provide more engagement, and there's a bit more forgiveness in the internal bleeder valve when it comes to adjustment? I am just trying to justify the $150!

Yes they provide more engagement and last longer.

Thanks for the help Reza....driving the car today and all seems good, but I may still go with an OEM master for some piece of mind.

I would go OEM as well.

I had all sorts of problems with my clutch engagement, which led to a complete Master cylinder failure and me stupidly forcing the gear lever into gear and damaging my transmission.

I had 1 master cylinder unknown brand fail on me installed by Magnus.

Then the second one they put in unknown brand started failing again before my car's rear main seal blew.

OEM for sure on this part.

Supposedly they hold up better with higher pressure plates as well, compared to the aftermarket ones.

The engagement point kept "lowering" right off of the floor when the master started "going".

I was told that maybe it's not the master, but something else wrong like my clutch.

???

$150 bucks is worth it in my opinion compared to breaking your transmission or doing damage to your clutch from not disengaging properly.

I learned the hard way.

Didn't read through the whole thread, but best info out there on our clutch setup & proper adjustment:

http://www.4g63turbo.com/tech/eclipse-clutch-adjustment.html

Yeah that is a great link, I think you posted that before somewhere else on the forum right? When I was searching through old posts I think I came across that link from you, very helpful.

I've been driving the car all week, about 150 kms so far in city, stop and go driving, and the clutch is fantastic. I am yet to try any launches as I want to ensure proper break-in, but I would DEFINITELY recommend the ACT 2900 PP / South Bend Kevlar-Feramic clutch disc combo, very nice indeed Nice engagement, pedal pressure is firm but not crazy, and no chatter whatsoever.

Ah, so you ended up with the TZ/FE disk & ACT2900 in the long run. I went with the TZ/FE disk as well but went with the Southbend SS PP. It has a clamping force of 2200-2300 & was told it will hold mid to high 10's without an issue. Hopefully should work well for me & be easy on the thrust bearing at the same time.

My removed Fidenza 4.3 was junk (15K miles), there was alot of friction material that had fallen right off. Worn to the rivots in spots but fluwheel & PP didn't look like they saw much heat.

I was replacing an SBR 3500 clutch with about 20,000 kms, and it was worn pretty flat when I took it out! Down to the rivets on the disc, but pressure plate and stock flywheel were fine. I had the flywheel resurfaced when I put in the new setup.

Good luck with yours, hopefully it helps get your times down to where you want to see them. I'm hoping for low 11's this year, but we'll have to wait and see how that goes

I'm also ordering a SBC TZ/FE disk for my ACT2900. Spoke to Tim Z yesterday and he recommended me that disk for my setup as well.
I'm glad your liking that setup Mike.

I finally had my first ACT failure. Luckily I wasn't driving the car. 5,000 km on my ACT2900 and ACT 6 puck sprung, no racing or launching. Shifted great for the amount of time driven. Was bleeding the clutch in the garage the other day and heard a nice snap from the tranny area when I was pressing the clutch down and lost about half the pedal pressure. Anyways pulled off the tranny and the ACT2900 had 3 broken/bent fingers and the base plate underneath the friction surface cracked in 3 spots. The 6 puck disk was also missing material off one of the pucks.

Anyways I got to say that ACT does stand behind their product. They still have great service even though I had a failure. I pulled it off sent pics to them the same day. No questions asked, Ryan from ACT told me to send him pics to prove that I have destroyed the pp and 6 puck sprung disk and then new ones will be mailed to me at no cost.

Sledge hammer didn't do much so I pulled out the air grinder .
I sent him these pics and assured him these will be going straight to the garbage
So now I'll be trying the SBC disk when the new pp and disk arrive.

holly....I guess 6 puck did not like the pressure of ACT 2900.
What are you planning to do with 6 puck Reza?

Yea, well I'm not sure what happened, but definately a major pp failure.

I will be selling the 6 puck sprung once I get it, since I'm trying the sbc disk this year. Let me know if your interested.

TZ/FE FTW

Edit: Here are some pics of my old 4.3:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/240420-fidanza-clutch-thread-8.html#post152535783

can't see it Daren. Still Probationary Member there

Hmmm, I thought everyone could view that, even if you weren't a member? If your a probationary member, not sure why you can view it, as the threads in the "newbie" section. I thought new members could look at most non private sections but only post in the newbie section?

Reza, that is some pretty catastrophic damage! I wonder why the bulk of the carnage is on one section of the PP and disc? I have never seen anything like that....then again, I haven't run 10's either

I guess you didn't read the post properly.

I put a sledge hammer and air grinder to it to destroy the clutch so that ACT could send me a new one, lol.

The pp friction surface and disk actually looked pretty new. Look at the pp fingers, you'll notice 2-3 of them off, and that little chunk of material missing from the 6 puck. The pics above are my attempt at destroying the clutch to prove to ACT that this is going straight to the garbage.

So the yellow portion of the PP is what split (or did you do that as well)? The PP friction surface split is part of what you did?

ACT couldn't tell the disk damage was self done, it looks like you took an air chisel/cut off wheel to it

Yes I split the pp friction surface and yellow part with a cut off wheel, and I cut off 3 pucks on one side of the disk.
Here are pics of it in the condition I took it off. An untrained eye may not catch that the pp fingers are not even. It was even more amplified with the clutch bolted to the flywheel, 3 of the fingers were in towards the clutch disk a few mm.
Pics are worth a thousand words

I actually started the car up just for the hell of it and could not select any gears, and the clutch pedal felt as light as a stocker.

Ha-ha, I get it now....so the missing piece of friction surface and the 2 or 3 fingers being slightly off were the actual issue...I wonder how many people have installed PP's with similar damage and not noticed it at all....

Good to know that ACT stand behind their stuff though, many other companies would not do the same

Yup you got it

Good thing is this happened right after bleeding the clutch in the garage. I actually heard the snap from the tranny area. May not have heard it if I was driving the car.

I almost instantly new it was the PP, and after checking the basics was 100% sure.

How long did it take you to pull off the tranny?

He seems pretty experienced, I am guessing it was on the ground in 40 minutes...close??

Maybe an hour and a half this time around with my smoke breaks .
I have dropped the tranny in 45 minutes once when I was in a rush.

Mother of god.

I know I could probably find a writeup somewhere, but if you are bored, could you please write one up?

Early Christmas gift?

I'm going to attempt it sometime this spring so I can get my tranny and t-case out to you Reza.

I'll have help from a Honda/Audi friend.

Edit: Do you have a damn "quick release" transmission? lol

Sorry for hijacking the Thread OP.

This is a 1g thing Michael:

From the bottom:
(1) Front two wheels on jackstands only. Remove wheels and drain tranny fluid.
(2) Remove one crossmember and downpipe bolts with airtools. Unhook the front and middle rubber exhaust hangers. Front half of exhaust is hanging now.
(3) Remove transfer case bolts, and slide the t-case over and place on the ground. Driveshaft is still attached (yoke is still in t case) and t-case is still full of fluid. No need to drain it.
(4) Remove two strut bolts on both sides, and axle carrier bolts. Pop passenger side axle off with small hammer and screw driver. Pull axles out.


To the top:
(1) Remove intake pipe, uicp, battery, starter, shifter cables, slave, speedo cable.
(2) Put jack under tranny.
(3) Remove tranny mount, 4 tranny bolts, and scattershield.
(4) Remove jack.
(5) Wiggle tranny and drop it to the ground gently.

I save time with air tools. I blast off hardware where its possible. Also every car is different and has different tricks. It helps when stuff is not seized either. 2g's take longer.

Holy mother.

Anyone want to trade?

Just kidding.

Definitely sounds straight forward.

Of course it'll be a PITA to get the bolts out I'm sure. *sigh*

Thanks man!

Basic gist of the work is great information for me.
Now it's just a matter of grabbing a manual, finding a spot to do the work, and getting to it.

Wanna save a few more minutes? I'm 99.9% sure the last time I pulled my tranny I left the intermediate shaft attached. Just slid the tranny off it. At MOST I simply unbolted the carrier bearing from the block.