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Speed Density #360568
September 06, 2011 11:37 pm UTC
September 06, 2011 11:37 pm UTC
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Paul Sitarski Offline OP
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Here is what my speed density setup looks like. For those that are considering the switch on the 2g cars with stock MAF, what I have noticed from my logs is that the stock 2g MAF does not restrict the air too much below 45lb/min. On my car with 3586(1250cc injectors) turbo I have so far gained around 55hp peak. Most of that gain is over 5750rpm at 40psi. Also at 40 psi the car flows 73lb/min. With the stock MAF the car would not hold 40psi and the boost would fall off to 35psi by 7500rpm. The rewired 255hp pump is running out of fuel at 40psi on that turbo. With the v3 Link it took me about 2 hours of tunning to get it pretty close to where I want it. The new Aeromotive pump is on its way to see what the car will do at 45psi smile I have made 2 big holes under the filter to direct the air from the bumper. I'm able to have the intake temps pretty close to ambient with this combo even at high boost. That allows me to get 19deg of timing at 40psi with meth. Here are couple of pics.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Paul Sitarski; September 06, 2011 11:42 pm UTC.

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Re: Speed Density [Re: Paul Sitarski] #360572
September 07, 2011 12:34 am UTC
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good to have pics up of this. I have all ready ordered in my SD kit from ECMlink and am just awaiting the arrival so I can get into wiring and trying to figure out where it will best fit in. Did you remove the stock MAF all together?
Anyone with 1G pics post pics!

Re: Speed Density [Re: Jason Weir] #360573
September 07, 2011 12:38 am UTC
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Yes the stock maf is gone as you can see in the pic.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Paul Sitarski] #360575
September 07, 2011 12:48 am UTC
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I have also just switched to SD and noticed greath improvement.

The set up needed a few tweaks but is running alright. I'm quite picky about my tune so need o work on the low rmp cruise. Aside from that just like Paul said it pulls and holds like a "mofo" above 5750.

I should be reciving a chunk of 4" Pipe to "fab-up" an Intake Pipe; not as shinny as Paul's but should be quite effective.

We'll see if it helps me get into the 11 this comming Saturday.

Ghislain


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #360580
September 07, 2011 01:10 am UTC
September 07, 2011 01:10 am UTC
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I am confused as to why you have decided to heat wrap your intake?


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Bryan Lawrence] #360581
September 07, 2011 01:14 am UTC
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^^^
You have to look at heat wrap as a heat barrier, it keeps the heat from crossing either side.
On an exhaust manifold you want to keep the heat inside the manifold but on an intake you want to keep the heat outside of the pipe. It is beneficial to wrap all of the intake and charge piping under the hood.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Rob Strelecki] #360592
September 07, 2011 01:28 am UTC
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And also to insure that a good amount of cold air gets into the Intake Pipe.

Ghislain


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Rob Strelecki] #360593
September 07, 2011 01:28 am UTC
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With the fans on, all the hot air was heat soaking the intake pipe, little wrap goes a log way. Thats one of the reasons my intake temps are close to ambient. All the little things help.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Paul Sitarski] #360602
September 07, 2011 02:00 am UTC
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I never "wrap" it but have a schroud and will also be making one with the new SD Set-up.

What "Wrapping" material are you using???

Ghislain


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #360609
September 07, 2011 02:16 am UTC
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Re: Speed Density [Re: Paul Sitarski] #360614
September 07, 2011 03:09 am UTC
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Thanks for the links Paul.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Ghislain Goudreau] #360628
September 07, 2011 02:08 pm UTC
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I my self have just recently switched to SD and I must say I love it. I went for roughly 1 hour drive to tune out some problems I was having 90% of my problems are now gone.
Used the built in VE table tool then I manually calculated the rest of the cells. Once I got the Air fuel ratio estimate to match my wide band as best I could things started running really great. Sep for I still have to tune out a few small problems like leaning out when I hit the throttle from idol.
Holding 18 degrees of timing WOT at 15.3 psi with zero Nock and 90 something % injector duty cycle on my stock 450’s frown not bad in my books. The day before when I was running a GM Maf I could not get over 1 psi with out starting to knock and other times the car would have no knock at all. So ya SD For The Win !
and yes I did check for boost leaks (Compressor then lots of soap and water) smile

Last edited by kent Hennigar; September 07, 2011 02:11 pm UTC.

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Re: Speed Density [Re: kent Hennigar] #360629
September 07, 2011 02:20 pm UTC
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Good to know and thanks for the links. I have used the header wrap before but have never seen any of that other stuff. I may just look into using that to keep the heat down in my engine pay!


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Bryan Lawrence] #360638
September 07, 2011 03:31 pm UTC
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I was planning to do the switch to SD but I am still trying to ensure i have all my leaks sorted out. I have installed the gm map and the intake temp is tapped and installed. I just need to cut the wires from the oem harness and wire up the GM temp sensor but I am concerned it will be tougher to tune.

I seen it has some pretty cool wizards to copy from your combinedFT. I also saw guys were tuning with Excel. It looked intimidating so I was holding off.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360640
September 07, 2011 03:39 pm UTC
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ps, looks awesome. I am thinking i should wrap my intake now. My temps get really hot in traffic. I built ducting which really helped when i am cruising.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360641
September 07, 2011 03:51 pm UTC
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Seems like the year of SD! I netted by best time by over 0.4s getting me well into 11's on my first time out after switching.
Only issue I seem to be having right now is the initial throttle tip in, where the car goes lean and almost dies. I've played with the Basetipin adjustment with no improvement. I know I need to get my MAP sensor closer to the intake.

Paul, where is your MAP and how much line are you running to it? and are you having this issue?


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Jamie Valcamp] #360642
September 07, 2011 03:57 pm UTC
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Re: Speed Density [Re: Paul Sitarski] #360643
September 07, 2011 04:03 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Paul Sitarski
[Linked Image]

Your nozzles are awfully close to your IAT sensor... General consensus is that if you install meth injection upstream of an IAT, you want as much distance between them as possible (+8") to allow the meth to atomize before reaching the sensor.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Scott McIntyre] #360644
September 07, 2011 04:08 pm UTC
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If you have a 2g i removed my mdp and just installed this

https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17164&cat=0&page=1

Then i could easly wire it into the mdp pin. Works great.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tyler Minshall] #360646
September 07, 2011 04:24 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Tyler Minshall


Thanks Tyler. I was looking into that but its really not that hard to wire up. The GM IAT only has 2 wires connecting it and either wire can connect to the ECU's IAT input. I bought the pigtail to connect to the sensor. I just need to get around to doing it. It just looks way more complicated to tune smile For someone still learning i figured i would wait till i was fully comfortable.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360647
September 07, 2011 04:30 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Tim Sedore
If you have a 2g i removed my mdp and just installed this

https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17164&cat=0&page=1

Then i could easly wire it into the mdp pin. Works great.


Unfortunately, I'm running a 6-bolt with 1G manifold.
I guess I'm looking to see how short I need to go to get proper throttle response.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360649
September 07, 2011 04:37 pm UTC
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If SD intimidates you at all I would defiantly get that Cable Tim. wink
It made my life easier I was able to switch back to my GM-MAF when I was unable to get my car to idol rather quickly. Allowing me to still drive to work the next day.
or even make your own plug and play cable smile

Last edited by kent Hennigar; September 07, 2011 04:39 pm UTC.

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Re: Speed Density [Re: kent Hennigar] #360650
September 07, 2011 04:41 pm UTC
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Yeah with the harness it looks really good and you can switch between the SD/MAF in 10 seconds.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tyler Minshall] #360653
September 07, 2011 05:23 pm UTC
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Well the GM map is installed and I am still running off my OEM MAF. The only thing i would have to do is move the 2 wires to the IAT so i guess i would be a good idea to use quick release butt plugs incase i have to switch back.

I was planning to get as many logs as possible and do the dialing in of my SD while still running off the maf. I have disabled SDWTempWeighting while i do it.

Do you only have to mess with the baseTipinTPSAdj when your running SD? Or could i possibly still need it with my 2g maf?


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Scott McIntyre] #360659
September 07, 2011 06:17 pm UTC
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Good to see a thread like this, I'm switching to SD for next year.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Anthony Hiscock] #360662
September 07, 2011 06:23 pm UTC
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I was also planning to wait till the spring but I am thinking i should switch while the topics hot smile


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360673
September 07, 2011 08:03 pm UTC
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Sorry for any gramer mistakes in advance. frown
You do not need your Maf to tune it, or dial it in. The VE table that comes with it dose not require alote of tweaking to get you up and running. smile
If your MAP has a good vacume source (ie) realy close to the intake. Keep the vacume line short as posible you should not need to adjust the Tipin very much.

Change your ECUimputs to what they need to be and change your Setting over to speed SD. make sure you are loging every thing SD needs then try and start it up, you will probly have to give it some more air to help it Idol, so open the BISC screw a little bit.

look at the VE cells the ECU is trying to use during idol. If idol is bad but it is running just start a log for a few seconds and use the VE combind fuel trim tool it will only change the cells that were used in the log wink nice quick way to get her to idol.

Then it is time to go for a cruse and read a couple guids on dialing SD all-though the VE tool is nice I still recomend crunching some numbers cell buy cell and traking it threw a few 15-20 min logs thanks (Ryan laliberte) embarassed for that that tip.
Now I have moved onto to learning how to get my BoostEST to match my boost as best I can & I will be adding some timing to my tune very shortly naughty


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Scott McIntyre] #360675
September 07, 2011 08:12 pm UTC
September 07, 2011 08:12 pm UTC
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Originally Posted by Scott McIntyre


Your nozzles are awfully close to your IAT sensor... General consensus is that if you install meth injection upstream of an IAT, you want as much distance between them as possible (+8") to allow the meth to atomize before reaching the sensor.


Actually my IAT is even closer, i.e. directly right after the 2 meth nozzles. I had to run it like this due to space constraints. As soon as my meth sprays my iat's DROP like a rock. I think he's fine smile

Its good to see all you new speed density guys enjoying it grin


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Re: Speed Density [Re: kent Hennigar] #360676
September 07, 2011 08:17 pm UTC
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awesome, you guys have given me the confidence to try setting this up this weekend. smile I will let you know how it goes.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360679
September 07, 2011 08:25 pm UTC
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i was wondering about the throttle tip in as i feel like i have a little bogging from idle. I have 272 cams so i assume thats it. Once I am going it moves!


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #360680
September 07, 2011 08:33 pm UTC
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You can increase/decrease throttle tip in to get rid of that hesitation. Log TPSDELTA and adjust fuel in the area you have the hesitation. Fairly straight forward.


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Reza Mirza] #360681
September 07, 2011 08:56 pm UTC
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Reza I still have a slight problem in this area. are you talking about adding fuel in the VE table's cell for were it leans out on throtle response? it hapens mostly when first touching the throtel after letting it return to 0% TPS

Last edited by kent Hennigar; September 07, 2011 08:59 pm UTC.

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Re: Speed Density [Re: kent Hennigar] #360737
September 08, 2011 01:21 pm UTC
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Re: Speed Density [Re: Reza Mirza] #360786
September 09, 2011 01:41 am UTC
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Drilled out the siphon and installed new pump. Boost at 42psi the car made 659 on the Link. Started to misfire anything over that , have to lower the gap down to .018 from .02. I don't think the car has much more in it. here is the latest log.
http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=40567&d=1315532841

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Paul Sitarski; September 09, 2011 01:48 am UTC.

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Re: Speed Density [Re: Paul Sitarski] #361058
September 13, 2011 06:12 pm UTC
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Well i took your advice and finally made the switch to speed density although I am waiting on my Throttle body seals as I found my boost leak. But it is all wired up and ready to go. I will test it out this week.

I also relocated my map so that it only has about a 4 inch straight vacuum going to it.

Do I have to change the Airflow smoothing now that I am closer to the throttle body? My vacuum source is right in the intake manifold. I replaced my MDP sensor with a 1/8 NPT tapped replacement fitting.

I was looking at some example logs from ecm's site and it had the value down to 66% on idle


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Re: Speed Density [Re: Tim Sedore] #361060
September 13, 2011 06:20 pm UTC
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I took my MAP vacuum on my 1G right from the top side of the intake inbetween probably 2/3 runners on the log there was a hose that was leading to the previous charcoal filter which was plugged off. Figuring that its the most true area after the throttle body...
Sort of stuffed the map inbetween the cruise control cables and zip tied it in there until I get things running and then make it a more stable home.

Last edited by Jason Weir; September 13, 2011 06:33 pm UTC.
Re: Speed Density [Re: Jason Weir] #361479
September 19, 2011 07:02 pm UTC
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Tim Sedore  Offline
Serious Member
*****
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,410
Ontrario, Canada
I fired up the car and took it for a spin. There is a noticeable difference since making the switch to SD. Other than having a problem with cold starting it never drove so smooth before. I feel like I have power now through the entire power range and I am spooling a lot quicker. I don't know how much of that is from fixing the leaking throttle body but I am loving SD. Dialing it in is a little more complicated. I tried using the wizard (SE VE adjust) but it did not run as smooth after. I think it left some large jumps between cells. I guess it will need some smoothing out. I am also having a real hard time finding somewhere to do 3rd gear pulls past 5500. I will probably reset my tune and start over tonight. Any tips for how to properly tune it without the wizard? I have seen some excel files floating around.


99 Eclipse GST RIP
08 Evolution GSR 440HP/410TQ
11.96 @ 116 MPH(more to come)

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