I met with Brent Fortin today to test and tune the SPDI spark coil on plug system and overall, it works and works well.

Brent is a rep for SPDI who specializes in the fabrication and development of these units and he got in touch with me through a friend of mine who used to own a dsm.

Turns out, he already is a part of the Mitsubishi community and currently owns a fwd turbo Lancer

Anyway, the COP system is unique from the other systems out there. It uses coils from a 1000cc Suzuki GSXR motorcycle and not your tradtional intrepid coil.

It also has a programmable function which is done via a software that looks pretty user friendly. (I'll let him dwell into that).

All in all, I think it's great a Canadian product like this has become available.

And I'd like to welcome Brent to CLUB DSM CANADA!

on a side note; I wish I had take more pics of this testing we did today. We got so caught up in configuring the settings, the system, my car..and well, gawking at his

for more information, check out their webpage at; www.spdispark.com



sorry for the poor picture quality

I wish we could have seen a before and after dyno information, let us know if there is any change in fuel economy.

which of the 3 spark pulses are you using?

well, we tried 2 profiles (unsure of pulse), the first was responsive. comparable to the stock system. but the 2nd, seemed a lot smoother, and more responsive.

wish we had a dyno to compare too

I think that Garrett Logan tested one of these on his Lancer last Spring.

Ghislain

Looks great but OUCH!!! RIGHT IN THE WALLET!

Yes, i did test this system on the Lancer. I know Brent pretty well, he's got the same car as mine, only it's an 05. At the time i was not turbocharged. I wouldn't mind testing it again now that the motor is boosted...from what i've heard, they've learned a lot through all the test vehicles, and are making good progress...

I still think in order to sell these to DSMers, they might have to make more progress on the price....but I have expressed a willingness to offer them through the webstore, and time will tell if there is interest or not....

I don't get it. How does this thing make a plasma across a spark plug tip?

here's a link to a vid taken from the SEMA display;

http://s217.beta.photobucket.com/us...amp;_suid=135344020328707599140568772826

top = cdi
middle = basic oem spark
bottom = plasma

WOW, would this not help efficiency and mileage?

yes it would, especially seeing as you can program it to spark longer, burning more fuel..lower emissions for sure

Each region should have a set, then when we need to pass etest we can use them

But I agree with what Ziggy said, I may have interest but would like a good understanding of price.

Sounds expensive, but I wonder how much of a difference you'd see real world.

I'm interested.

Apparently they are having good results with it on other cars..increased fuel economy, and increased power...but I guess it is still a question of is it worth the investment? If the fuel economy difference is HUGE, it might be...

For me if it made a good amount of difference on both or a big difference on power I would be down. I don't care much for fuel economy, at least not on my talon

THIS!!!

Fuel economy would be a nice selling point for me seeing as this would be going in a DD. But that price NEEDS to drop considerably before I'd be onboard.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=IY...t&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here is what i can find on how it works.

I guess this system would be competing against a COP ignition system. What's the price for one of those full systems? I've seen a range of prices, but a proper full COP setup for much less than $1000 for a DSM is rare. And COP systems don't claim to increase fuel economy. So, I don't think $1000 is out of line at all. Would I pay a grand for such a system? No, but I wouldn't pay a grand for a COP system either. The point is, anyone in the market for a COP system must already be prepared to pay an amount similar to that.

The one im looking at from spark tech with a m&w pro 12 cdi is way more..

same! hopefully ziggy and brent can work out a good kit and price..we'll see what happens from there

Well I was trying to figure out what the difference was between DIY kit and the full kit. Only difference I found was no wiring harness, no coils, no bracket, I am sure we all have enough knowledge that we could go without those, but am curious as to why they are valued at $500

could always buy a used system, if you trust it.

I believe the coils are hard to source and pricey. I am waiting on specs for them to see if I can source them cheaper.

Looks pretty cool guys, I understand the excitement! I run 40 psi of boost on my stock coils with NGK plugs and NGK wires, with no misfires or bad fuel mileage that I can remember.

So why and at what point do I need this again for my DSM?

Beautiful, that's exactly what I was asking for. I had found the 600 GSXR coils because that's what it listed in the EVO description, they were only 14 each from ebay.

Reza, how many mpg are you getting. Last time I checked I was around 21, mostly city driving, which I guess isn't terrible but it's not great.

I never really cared soo much since a modded DSM is not about getting the best mileage. However, it does do over 600km on the highway and around 400km on the street with spirited boosted driving. 100km/10 litres is a good all round figure I'd say.

I remember my pops' old 2003 Altima 2.5 did 11L/100kms, so 10 is excellent if you think about what these little 2.0 engines are pushing out, power wise.

That's pretty good!

Brent has been waiting for his account to be approved by the powers that be, otherwise I'm sure he would have replied MANY times by now.

I'm pretty sure Brent will come on and back his product

Since you guys have already done numerous testing, I'd like to hear what you guinea pigs noticed with this. Is it just better mileage?

I'll chime in here.

First off, the chick on the website in the video is smokin. Just sayin.

Second, I recently upgraded my ignition system to a Sparktech COP and a Dynateck ARC-2 unit. My main reason for doing this was to allow for a spark-cut 2 step, and on an Auto, it makes a world of difference.

The advantage I've seen so far with the ARC-2 unit was it allowed me to run a larger gap with my plugs, thus improving fuel economy by allowing a more efficient burn. I logged an impressive 37.4psi/59.8lbs/min on my turbo this year, and not a single hiccup with spark. The spark cut 2 step is super fast, allowing me to lose less than 50rpms up on the converter (4100rpm launch).

The COP - well I got it for 2 reasons. 1: At 248XXXkms, I'm sure my coil was getting tired, I was having ignition breakup even after changing wires and closing my gap. Since my car is my DD, fuel economy is important.

2: It's CLEAN! No spark plug wires, a nice clean look and they are just as effective as the Coils. It's more compact, with faster response and less resistance (obviously).

This product is too expensive for it's benefits. The DSM coils have gone 9's and some of the fastest guys out there still use the OEM coil pack with wires. Hell, there's a thread on DSMLink where a guy has created plug wires with the same length and a FRACTION of the resistance (6.12Kilo-ohms vs 124.5 OHMS).

Just my $0.02. Not a need, more of a want.

Kind of like your reply Wryan.

I think the biggest advantage of the said SPDI Spark Machine is to benefit a platform that does not have as much support as ours does.

There is more that one way to make more powa and to reduce emission. I'm convinced this system is no "snake oil" but does not meet our needs because of it's price point if you compare to what is available for our Sleds.

Been able to increase the "spark duration" and strength would be a benefit to any automobile. One should consider if worthy for their needs and goals.

All in all I hope the makers of this product can read this topic and see what the DSM "pulse" is. We should remember these guys have put blood and sweat into a working Canadian product.

Ghislain

Garett: please chime in and comment if you think that you could now benefit from such a system. Maybe they will allow you to retest and compare pre and post Turbo.

Ghislain

i spoke with Brent the other day, i may have another opportunity to test the system in a few weeks...i'll get a few logs before hand. like my normal daily drive, and maybe some fun stuff...

That would be totally cool.

Our world is greathly supported and we like to support who provides for us.

Be objective in your observations and make sure you report here and on other forums.

Ghislain

Ryan, I've heard great reviews on the Dynateck Arc-2. That is probably the route I'd take if it came down to me needing one.

I've said to most, it's the best mod I've done to my car next to Link/SD. You can literally FEEL the difference in ignition quality.

I've been trying to wrap my head around this plug concept and I don't get it. I had to pick up a set of platinum or iridium plugs just for the testing. Copper plugs won't work according to Brent.

Garett, what plugs did you use?

Understandably copper's conductive properties aren't as effective as the plati's or iri's. BUT, without this plasma plug, how is it ACTUALLY making plasma? especially across a .024 gap?

Brent please chime in!

This plasma plug stuff is pretty impressive, found another company that did a dyno run and has documented differences, and it wasn't small. Could we just run plasma plugs with the stock components?

an amplifier is needed. what's sparks my curiosity, is whether or not plasma plugs would work with a cdi system..?

Nice pun Mike, I would be curious too. The plasma plugs definitely give good results!

i'm so punny eh lol

When we tested my car, i had regular copper plugs from crappy that i threw in after my engine rebuild...The OEM plugs for a 4G69 engine are iridium anyways...Brent had his Lancer there as well, and we ended up borrowing his iridium plugs for the test. After him making fun of me for having over-gapped "lawn mower" plugs in my car...lol

Hello to all DSM'ers,

First off its been great to see all the talk around SPDI. I will go over all and do quick response to as many questions as I can.

Just to clarify, what is meant by "profile" SPDI can program/adjust various aspects of the spark to create or "shape" a unique spark to match the precise amount of spark energy for the entire burn duration.

With the SPDi Manager (software) you can program or "tune":
Breakdown Current
Ignition Delay Power
Plasma Support Power
Ignition Delay Duration
Plasma Support Power

By adapting these settings you can "shape" or "adapt" the spark to the specific needs of the air fuel mixture for the conditions its under.

With Mike's car the first "profile" was based on a car running normal AFR, after looking AFR and ignition timing I noticed he was a bit rich under full load at WOT so I adjusted the spark to best match the conditions and he said "but the 2nd, seemed a lot smoother, and more responsive." proving not one spark will do for all conditions. I am confidant I could have made the car much more responsive if we have more time.

CDI systems that fire multiple sparks with a fixed power level, SPDI will fire one continuous spark with varying power levels for up to 60 crank angle degrees.

Correct (in short)testing shows that with different setting/profiles both can be achieved.

This is a very good point. By burning more fuel efficiently our testing has shown a decrease in emissions.

I have tested this system for over a year now and I have seen some very interesting situations and new direction for tuning because if the adaptability for the spark to the varying conditions or requirements of the engine.

There are a few testimonials about the system but here is the one that stands out in my mind.

I'm Lionel from Speedmerchants , I have a 2000 Audi TT quattro and did some modifications to it . For example Garett GT28RS turbo , Integrated engineering 20mm connecting rods , CTS tuning custom intercooler , turbo piping and manifold , Maestro 7 software and many other parts . The power increase was great at 14 pounds of boost it really cooked but I wanted more . With the mods I did I was capable of running at least 20-22 psi but I had a problem anything over 18-19 psi I'd get a miss and stutter . I've deduced that it was an ignition miss changed the plug gap but I need more power and thats when I met Brent from Spdi Spark . He tossed in the plug and play kit and in minutes we went for a drive . First thing I did was floor it and to my amazement at 19psi no miss !! Right away I was impressed then I kept cranking up the boost now I'm up to 24 psi and It pulls hard !! Now with a little more tweaking I'm super impressed the power comes on super smooth and the car is running cleaner and I noticed an increase in fuel economy even with my 630 cc injectors ! I highly recommend Spdi spark if your a tuner like me or if your just want your car to run more efficiently !

Lionel

What SPDi needs is a sharp concentrated point the fat ended electrodes have supplied us with all kinds of misfires. The Platinum or RI plugs work the best.

SPDI uses ionization to promote combustion. The plasma "energizes" the the molecules ahead of the flame front, this helps stabilize the flame front.

To paraphrase Jeremy Clarkston: the fuzzy spark jumps the gap, witch craft happens and you burn more fuel....

Now that my profile has been approved I will be on here regularly to answer as many questions as possible.

If i missed some questions I do apologize.

Brent

Here is a screen shot of the SPDi Manager, this will illustrate how you make changes to the park profile.

I think what most of us would like to see is Dyno before/after and either identical back to back drive or long term before/after drives for fuel economy.

From the sounds of it, it is a system that is really easy, once you have it tuned it, get a reading, take it out, and reconnect the stock system and have a back to back dyno pull where nothing else could influence the results.

Most people say DSM'ers are cheap, but I prefer to say, we know what is the best bang for buck out there and it isn't just based on a butt-dyno.

edit: just took a good look at the program screen, looks really damn neat...with that being said, is there support for higher resolution for the graph in terms of RPM?

If set up you can set the RPM ranges to go up 1000rpm at a time but if you set the RPM ranges for crusing and WOT you can group a few ranges together. More ranges are coming.

I don't think anyone is cheap regardless of the stereotype, consumers are getting smarter and if you are going to hand out that kind of cash you want to know it works.

On to the Dyno, I understand its the industry standard but there are a few things to consider before laying dyno results as the only standard. The major factor with SPDi is this: as SPDi burns more fuel, it will also clean out years of deposits, depending on how bad the conditions are this could take a few days of driving to so. After SPDi cleans out the deposits then put the stock ignition back on, the stock ignition will reap the benefits, then slowly carbon up and you will notice a drop off in performance. There is way to much going on to do a back to back comparison, we are not really comparing the same things here. We use an accelerometer that measures longitudinal g-force. If we can get a test car for a day I can fully develop SPDi and get results.

Welcome ABOARD Brent!

An A-B-A test will resolve all those issues. In fact, an A-B-A test will prove everything you just said. If there is in fact a performance increase to be found from simply cleaning out the deposits, then comparison between the first and last will indicate such.

Welcome aboard Brent!

Your timing is bittersweet IMO. You've got a great product, marketable to a niche market, however with the DSM platform, these cars have been around for 24 years, and running 10s is a common thing these days.

You do however give those who wish to turbocharge their cars an option for ignition control, which is a benefit they will benefit from extremely.

Welcome to the board!

Welcome!

Thank you all....lol

It seems to be a very ingenius system, but wouldn't marketing to the manufacture be more profitable for SPDI. They are always looking for ways to make vehicles perform better and be more efficient and reduce emission. I am sure they would be very interest if you could make ULEV standards without putting 3 or more cats on a car.

Manufacturers are also always looking at ways to trim costs..

I don't know how you phrasing that Ziggy.

Just saying that manufacturers, while constantly looking to improve the product (up to a point...there still needs to be built in obsolescence)...are also always considering cost. I doubt that a manufacturer is going to add a very expensive ignition system just to improve product. Hell, they are already making HUGE improvements just with weight, materials, and other less expensive technologies...like Mazda's "skyactive" and Ford's "ecoboost".

Mmmmm booost

I don't know Ziggy. I think that if it actually makes a difference like they claim them car makers would be interested. They have add alot of expensive tech to help with economy and emission. IE... drivebywire. Valve timing control, cylinder management. None were cheap in the begining, but once mass produced aren't really that expensive

You might be right. I still remember hearing, though, that if a car maker can save a penny per vehicle, that translates to a shitload of money...

Hell, I remember when Ford figured out that the Pinto (I think it was) was a rolling molotov cocktail. They had the bean counters crunch the numbers, and figured out it would be cheaper to payoff the widows than to recall the cars and fix them.

Oh I agree. A penny a vehicle is a ton of savings for car makers. It would have to start in the higher level vehicles like Mercedes, BMW, Acura, Lexus and so on... Once it became cheaper to produce it would migrate down just like bluetooth and keyless access.

Have worked as a Quality Control Engineer for Toyota (at the Cambridge plant where they produce Corollas, Matrices and the RX350), I can tell you that even down to the hundreths of a cent per car (especially on something like the Corolla which is produced in such vast quantities) a large amount is saved over the course of a vehicle's production life. If you figure they're pumping out about 1000 cars per day, 6/7 days per week, that's over $3100 in savings per year (assuming 1 cent saved per part and 1 part per vehicle). That may not sound like a lot, but consider that there are many hundreds of components that go into each car, with many of the smaller items being used multiple times (i.e. fasteners, clips, etc.). And, many of those smaller items are shared between platforms. You have a .1 cent/piece saving on a bolt you use 10 times in each of the 3 vehicles produced there, that's 1 cent per vehicle for every vehicle. It really does add up, especially on a low profit margin car like the Corolla.

wow Salomon, great summary of how things operate

how's the knee btw?

When they say every penny counts, it really does.

And, the knee is probably 90% better. Fine for everyday use but not completely recovered...I can do my strength training but I wouldn't start doing any kind of distance running on it just yet. Thanks for asking =)

Here is an interesting piece: I finally installed Spdi on my Lancer(again, long story) I have the AFR set at 10.1 WOT 6psi(max boost) after some tinkering with the system my afr is now at 12.3 same conditions. remember I did not touch the ECU tune I just made a longer spark; before the car would pull nicely in 3rd gear now the car breaks loose, I will post the iphone vid in a bit...notice the chuckle at the end of the vid.

That's impressive! With traditional spark you would be crazy to run that lean!!

Thats just it, i did not touch the afr, the afr is set at 10.3 and the spark was able to burn more available fuel making the reading 12.5

I cant quantify if buy i did feel more pull from the car. Before I could not break the tires loose but now I can, I know thats not documented numbers but it is a attribute of sorts...vid still uploading...

Umm... 10 to 1 air fuel ratio is Rich

It is very rich, was set that way for tuning purposes better to start rich and back it off than go too lean and make a mess.

Fixed my sentence so there is no ambiguity. I would say 10 is good for WOT, it's definitely rich if you are sitting at a stop light.

Sorry Brent i was refering to Bryans lean comment. That is very impressive. I am tell you market this sh!t to the car makers they just got hit with another emmission regulation where they have to cut 5% per year every year starting 2017

Others in the company are focusing in emissions, Personally, and I quote Ricky Bobby "I need to go fast"..ok bad joke...lol...we do have some base emission numbers and they are impressive.

I would love to throw your system on a honda/Acura and see what is does to emmission.

Me too, I should be in TO in 2 weeks doing a test on a K-series. I really want to do a b-series but we would need the AEM distributor delete, we would need to run a few tests and see if we can come up with firmware that will work.

Ok here is the link finally...again listen for the chuckle ..the car never broke loose like this.

http://s217.beta.photobucket.com/user/AftershockAutomotive/media/IMG_0598.mp4.html

So it needs to be COP.

Can't view the video, tried bone stock IE and firefox

http://s217.beta.photobucket.com/user/AftershockAutomotive/media/IMG_0598.mp4.html

Let me know if that works.

scratch that, works, firefox hates me

Is it your clutch that has no traction or your tires ?

3rd Tires
4th Clutch...hard to look at the road and RPM and speedo, but good catch I did not notice that until you mentioned it.

You running winter tires or summer tires?

i think you're wasting your time with a b-series. they're slowly becoming obsolete lol

Summers for at the time I will shoot a vid with winters. Summers are a handcook ventus they were ok but I will be trying the cooper Zeon RS3-S

http://ca.coopertire.com/Tires/Performance/ZEON-RS3-S.aspx

The rate I go through tires should be a good test. I like looking for an under rated tire and seeing what they can do. I met with a few Reps at SEMA this year and they seam to stand up pretty well for daily use, the abuse part is yet to be seen.

Back on subject looks like we have a test car. Wll be doing a few tests after December 15.

Hey!

Super busy sorry I have not chimed in. As of January 1st there has a been a price drop. We have tested new coils that work better then the previous ones and the best part they are cheaper.

http://spdispark.com/collections/mitsubishi

You will also the DIY kit that was not offered before. This is the best option for cost saving and the guys that like to do their own wiring.

I will be at Euroline Performance in Oakville tomorrow evening from 4pm to about 7pm is any one wanted to drop in.

Did you make any more progress with Dan @ HP? He definitely knows what he's doing and could help you out WAY more than I could.

Also, glad to see a little price change..Can it get any lower though?

You can pic up the DIY/Standard Kit for $428. All it come with is the SPDI unit, 5 and 7 pin connector and the 4 coil connectors. You will have to supply the coils(part number will be provided)mounting brackets and all wiring. This is perfect the the build on a budget guys.

Last I spoke t Dan he is willing to test but that had issues with the test car and have to put off testing until that gets sorted or we find another car.

http://spdispark.com/collections/mitsubishi/products/diy-spdi-kit-1