Strange rattling from tranny
#407167
July 10, 2013 06:32 pm UTC
July 10, 2013 06:32 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 184 St. John's, Newfoundland
Jim Spurrell
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St. John's, Newfoundland
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Hey all,
Recently got a strange rattling in my 2g when at an auto x event. Sounded like a bearing, I had determined it was the tranny side. The rattle is bad on decel and goes away when you push on the clutch pedal, even just touching the cutch pedal a little makes it go away. I had thought it might have been a faulty TOB as I had that and clutch setup replaced maybe 6000kms ago. Ordered a new TOB and tossed it in, got it back together and same thing. Now I've been leaning towards the springs in the clutch disc, running an ACT sprung street disk. I've ordered a new disk so hoping to bang that in when it gets here. I never really thought to look into this as I thought for sure it was the TOB. Has any had a similar experience? Or think it could be something else? last thing I want is to haul it all again and toss it back together and not fix it
Any info/thoughts would be great
Cheers, Jim
1997 Eagle Talon AWD 1/4 Mile - 11.30 @ 126.65MPH 1/8 Mile - 7.09 @ 98.12MPH
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407174
July 10, 2013 07:08 pm UTC
July 10, 2013 07:08 pm UTC
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,808 Ontario, Canada
Salomon Ponte
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If you've got the tranny out anyways, pull it apart and take a look, all you have to do is pop off the two nuts and a roll pin to be able to inspect everything.
Definitely worthwhile, especially with a such a new clutch setup (therefore less likely to be the cause, imo).
'92 Talon TSi AWD - 5 Speed/E16G/12.385s @ 115.13mph
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407197
July 10, 2013 11:39 pm UTC
July 10, 2013 11:39 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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Posts: 10,749
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If you rest your foot on the clutch does the noise go away?
Does the noise increase with vehicle speed?
Does the noise increase with engine RPM?
When coasting in neutral, is the noise present?
Does the noise happen when you are reversing?
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407216
July 11, 2013 04:06 am UTC
July 11, 2013 04:06 am UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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I got something similar. Happens at idle for me. The lower the idle, the more noticeable it is. sometimes when I push the clutch in it stops, but not always.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
PHP: 2
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407239
July 11, 2013 11:42 am UTC
July 11, 2013 11:42 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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My flywheel is really chattery Stephan and presents the same thing you are talking about. What flywheel you have?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Ryan Laliberte]
#407241
July 11, 2013 12:05 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 12:05 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 184 St. John's, Newfoundland
Jim Spurrell
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If you rest your foot on the clutch does the noise go away?
Does the noise increase with vehicle speed?
Does the noise increase with engine RPM?
When coasting in neutral, is the noise present?
Does the noise happen when you are reversing? clutch in it goes away and slight touching the pedal is gets quiet as well Seems to increase a little when I rev in neutral coasting in neutral it's still there, seems to always be there when clutch pedal is out, it's bad on decel in gear I can't confirm reverse. I have the tranny out again now, my clutch disk looks worn but all the springs in the center look to be intact. I think I'm going to pop the end cap off too and have a look. I've been getting a lot it could be input shaft bearing as well, it's a shep built tranny I bought used with low miles, but that doesn't mean it's not an internal bearing.
1997 Eagle Talon AWD 1/4 Mile - 11.30 @ 126.65MPH 1/8 Mile - 7.09 @ 98.12MPH
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407250
July 11, 2013 12:51 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 12:51 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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What flywheel do you have?
Stephan we have the same flywheel and from what I understand they can be pretty noisy, especially when cold.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407254
July 11, 2013 12:59 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 12:59 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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Toronto, Ontario
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Ah. Phewf! I was worried for a bit. I'd just end up turning the volume up on the stereo when I heard that noise. If I can't hear it, it's not there xD. Unfortunately that's not a good idea. Lol
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
PHP: 2
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407256
July 11, 2013 01:02 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 01:02 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Caledon, Ontario, Canada
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"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407317
July 11, 2013 07:24 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 07:24 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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I hope it ain't, but think it could be a loose bolt? Or does it not sound like that?
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
PHP: 2
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407337
July 11, 2013 08:43 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 08:43 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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Driving with it is not bad. I've gotten used to it, and I won't drive unless its nessisary.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
PHP: 2
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407352
July 11, 2013 10:52 pm UTC
July 11, 2013 10:52 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
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Yeah, that's what I had mentioned above. Stephan and I seem to have the same thing. As for Jim, that can be ruled out.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407366
July 12, 2013 12:26 am UTC
July 12, 2013 12:26 am UTC
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,809 Ottawa, ON
Mike Eng
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You guys get carried away some times Poor Jim is gonna have to pull it apart (what Salomon said) and inspect it. BUT, not all is lost. This is a good time to get other sh!t done while the tranny is out. (ie. POR15 some of the engine bay, wire tucks, whatever..)
'99 GSX GT35R '03 CBR 600RR
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407602
July 15, 2013 02:51 am UTC
July 15, 2013 02:51 am UTC
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749 Belleville, Ontario
Ryan Laliberte
No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
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No-Lift-To-Shift.... Stock. :)
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,749
Belleville, Ontario
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Replace your TOB, even though you already have, replace it anyway. Parts do come bad out of the box.
AWDAuto 1996 TSi AWD Automagic12.24 @ 113 - Small 16G FP Green HTA - 11.42/123 Team Pump Gas and Meth RTMRacing - Your Canadian source for DSM Parts "Every moment you live is pregnant with the next moment of your life" --Jim CarreyLast Login: September 28, 2021
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407631
July 15, 2013 02:29 pm UTC
July 15, 2013 02:29 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 290 Brantford
scot mitton
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Brantford
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i had the same thing that you explained in my evo.
and what i found out was it was the springs in the clutch getting loose and rattleing around ..
i replaced my clutch and sound went away.
"FABzilla MotorSports" custom welding & fabrication on Facebook click "like" 92 Evo GSR
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407648
July 15, 2013 05:04 pm UTC
July 15, 2013 05:04 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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Posts: 2,669
Toronto, Ontario
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My clutch doesnt have any springs and it rattles, for the record.
Every rattle is different though.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
PHP: 2
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#407887
July 17, 2013 12:57 pm UTC
July 17, 2013 12:57 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Ok it might just be the angle that pic was taken, the small end of the bearing looks like it was touching the inside of the bellhousing, but I could be wrong. Since your in there just double check all the bearings before putting it back together.
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#408223
July 18, 2013 10:56 pm UTC
July 18, 2013 10:56 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 184 St. John's, Newfoundland
Jim Spurrell
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St. John's, Newfoundland
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Got to have a better look tonight, again the input shaft bearing looks perfect, and all other bearings seem to be ok as well. The one thing I did notice was the shim for the bearing on the output shaft below the case and center diff, see pics below. It looks as if the shim is scoured a bit, tried to snap some pics, the case doesn't look bad on the other side but I don't think the shim should be like this :S Looks like I'll need to re shim, I guess the bearing spun or something? Thoughts? Thanks, Jim
1997 Eagle Talon AWD 1/4 Mile - 11.30 @ 126.65MPH 1/8 Mile - 7.09 @ 98.12MPH
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#408264
July 19, 2013 04:46 pm UTC
July 19, 2013 04:46 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
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Good day Jim
I'm chiming late into this post and have only "skimmed" through this tread.
The problem you are describing is sometime associated with TOB or Input Shaft bearings. Other components can create similar noise.
Having said that you have observed all of those components and notice a scored Shim. It has been two years since I open a Tranny and do not remember exactly how that Shaft is driven.
Factory Input Shaft and Center Diff specs call for an "Enplay" while the Intermediate, Center and Output Shafts require a Preload.
You can find in here an older post where tighter specs are suggested; IIRC those specs were suggested by Tim Zimmerman from ECMLink Board.
I would suggest that you verify those tolerance and use 0.004" to 0.007" of Preload for your Input Shaft. 0.005" to 0.007" Preload for the Intermediate, Center and Output Shafts and 0.002 to 0.0067" Endplay for the Front Diff.
Hope this helps.
Ghislain
Last edited by Ghislain Goudreau; July 19, 2013 04:48 pm UTC.
Rouge!!!
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Re: Strange rattling from tranny
[Re: Jim Spurrell]
#408266
July 19, 2013 05:00 pm UTC
July 19, 2013 05:00 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,503 Trenton, On, Canada.
Ghislain Goudreau
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Trenton, On, Canada.
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Just reread your original post.
You mention that the noise happen while on deceleration. Under deceleration the Wheels drive the Tranny so the Output Shaft is under "negative torque". A small backlash can cause this type of problem under this condition. My bet is that this worn Shim is part of your problem. Inspect the Output Shaft and Front Diff Teeth and their wear patern and if not worn reshim.
I think that Paul Sitarski had an Output Shaft for sale.
As for the Shim; they can be hard to procure. I had some water cut out of a 0.062" hard metal (60 on Rockwell scale) and rectified to the thickness I needed.
I'm confident that "should" fix your problem.
Ghislain
Last edited by Ghislain Goudreau; July 19, 2013 05:01 pm UTC.
Rouge!!!
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