Hey guys,

So one of my winter projects is to upgrade my single piston brake set up on my '97 gst spyder. I've been looking on the RTM site for options and I got a bit of insight back at the meet in Guelph.

What I think I want to do is upgrade to the dual piston brake upgrade and use the outlander rotor and bracket set up. I like the look of filling as much of my rim space as possible with rotor so that's why I think I'm liking the outlander rotors over cross drilled or slotted.
I'm trying to stay in a budget of $350-$400.

A couple questions I have are:
Is this a good option for my budget?
Does the RTM brake kit include everything I need to make my single piston dual and work properly?
The brake upgrade kit and outlander kit are sold separately on RTM, are they pretty good with mixing and matching items since I wouldn't need the rotors the brake upgrade kit comes with?

I'm sure someone has done this and can give me a bit of insight as to what I need before getting started, so any help or direction I can be given would be great!

I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to these things so I'm trying to learn as I go!

Thanks guys.

In your case, you'd need to purchase all three things: Outlander rotors, Outlander brackets and 2g dual-piston calipers. To save some money, you can generally find used 2g dual-piston calipers. In fact, I think we may have a couple of sets kicking around. I'll take a look. I've got Outlanders on my car so if you wanted to see if your rims cleared you can check them out next time you're in the Falls. But pretty much ANY 17"ers will clear. Even the stock 17"ers clear.

I would grab the outlander kit from RTM and then see if you can find someone locally with some 2 pot brakes. For just the calipers you shouldn't be looking at more than 100$

I have a pair of 2G AWD 2 pot fronts. They were working fine but could use some cleaning up. I would let them go for significantly less than $100

There you are!

Paul - I've got 18's so I think I Should be good as long as the calipers don't catch. If you happen to find any dual piston calipers let me know that would be great!

Jeff - PM'd!

Sounds like I'll be grabbing the outlander brake kit as well as some calipers. Awesome to know I've got options! Thanks guys

Turns out I found a set. Here you go:
Link

By the way, since those are used, there's no tax on them.

Also, we can get some pricing on some fancier Outlander rotors (slotted, cross-drilled, etc) if you'd like.

does he not need the saddles?

Paul - What else will I need to buy with those calipers? the Banjo bolts and pads? I'm going to snag those since you have em up right now and ill pick up the outlander kit around christmas... After my spoiled son gets everything on his list!

If by saddles you're referring to the pad brackets, then no, that's why God invented Outlander brackets. It's the Outlander brackets that make the whole upgrade possible. However, now that I'm thinking of these things, you might need the caliper-to-bracket pins. We may have some kicking around or they may even be the same from the single-piston calipers. I'll look into it.

Pads for sure. The banjo bolts would be the same on your single-piston calipers, but you'd want new crush washers for sure. Two per caliper, M10.

Just checked, caliper-to-bracket pins are the same for single and dual piston, so you can re-use yours on the duals.

The pad brackets you are talking about are called caliper saddles. Some call them brackets some call them bridges, but they are saddles. Just like a motor is an engine.

Fair enough. In any case, the Outlander upgrade uses ones unique to them, not the 2g style.

Yeah my bad, I wasn't thinking about that fact that you wouldn't need them for the outlander setup

I have ZERO experience with the Outlander brake setup BUT...From my personal experience with brake upgrades I would suggest going with a larger brake Booster & Master cylinder since the outlander caliper cylinders are no doubt larger then any OEM DSM, there was a much needed and noticeable difference when I upgraded my booster and master with my 02 cobra brake setup.

I would imagine the master wouldn't be up to the task with any calipers that are larger then the OEM 2 pots, It will probably work fine but you won't get the full effect of your newly found braking capacity unless you give the calipers the force they were designed to work with.

The upgraded Master and Booster I speak of can easily be found in a few different cars such as 3g Eclipse, 2g Sebring Coupe and the evo 8. you will be looking for a measurement on the side of the master that says 1 1/16'' instead of our OEM 1'

Good luck and happy breaking

The outlander setup is still using 2 pots. He should be good with the master and booster he has, but you will notice a difference if you do decide to take terry's advice.

My bad...I thought he was using Outlander calipers aswell. is it even worth it to spend $xxx's on a setup that essentially just uses a larger rotor? I would either spend the whole budget on a complete larger brake setup from RTM or do things on the cheap and just go with a OEM 2pot with a set of EBC rotors and pads.

Seemes like a waste of money to just go for a setup thats 'kind-of' better then the OEM awd.

just my $.02

Yeah that's a good point, I am with Terry on this.
I would either go with just the 2 pot setup or go with an actual big brake setup, 4 pistons are better than 2

Terry - I totally agree with all your points. And you're completely right when you say I'm going for slightly better than OEM AWD brakes. I like the look of larger rotors vs OEM AWD ones, and really cost wise isn't too big of a difference anyways.

Why I'm not going all out and getting wilwoods (Daren offered me a great deal) is because My car needs attention in other places as well. My brakes are sub par so I thought this would be good for me for a while.

I just want to make sure everything is solid on my car before I start going all out, I've only had my DSM for a few months so there's still lots about this car I'm learning.

I would just go for the 2 pots than, you can decide later whether you want a little more braking power or a lot more braking power after you have tried them for a while

Dual piston caliper, a decent set of pads, some cross drill rotors. Flush the fluid. And you will be good.

I do agree with Terry, but unless you are Johnny race car driver most of the benefits of throwing $1000 in brake parts at you car will be lost.

Just to clear up any info about the Outlander upgrade. The Outlander fronts use the EXACT SAME CALIPERS AS THE 2g AWD DSM fronts. The same, not similar, the actual same ones. (They're both Mitsu vehicles afterall, so it's not that far-fetched an idea. Many manufacturers have various components that are used across several models in their lineup. It's not a new concept).
Anyway, getting back to the Outlander brakes. As discussed, the hydraulic portion of the caliper is a 2g AWD caliper, only the pad bracket (or saddle if you prefer) differs from the 2g AWD. It spaces the caliper 10mm further from the centre of the hub. The rotor is 20mm larger in diameter to match (2 x the 10mm additional radius the Outlander bracket provides).

Are the pads any bigger? I remember the old GM's had pads you could interchange between regular and police package. Everything else was the same other then the lenght and width of friction surface. So like instead of having that half inch of rust on the centre part of you rotor the pad and rotor actually used the whole surface.

Pads are the same, verified by hawks same part number; HB214F.618.

I believe the dust shields will need to be bent or removed to clear the rotors.

Here are some comparisons,

Not sure why people are saying it's not worth it? Even the exact same calipers and pads further out on a larger diameter rotor is still an upgrade. This over the single pots will be a big upgrade in performance and looks. Cool mod

Yes, pads are the same. As for dust shields, yes something would have to be done with them. I guess most people realize (when they pause to think about it at least) that if a rotor suddenly "grows" in diameter, try as it might, the dust shield can't do the same. But of course, that applies to ANY upgrade that uses a larger diameter rotor.

Not necessarily. It depends largely on the surface area. Two larger pistons COULD have a much larger surface area than four smaller ones.

Well said!

All I am trying to say is that the difference between the 1 pots and the 2 pots is going to be more than going from stock location to outlander location.
He also says he has other things that he needs to do on the car so I think it would make more sense to work on that.

Hey boys love the discussion! This is what I was hoping would happen! Every aspect of what I wanna do reviewed!

Anyways looks like I've made my decision and will actually be stopping next year!

Next up... slammin the bitch OR joining to AWD spyder crew

My post wasn't in response to a particular post. I was just stating the raw facts so that anyone who viewed this thread (whether now or in the future) would at least know the raw facts uncoloured by commnent or opinion of any kind. Just the plain facts.

Fair enough.

AWD FTW

Actually, there was a slight bit of misinformation I posted about the Outlander setup. All reference to "2g AWD front calipers" should be replaced with "DSM 2-piston (or dual-piston, or 2-pot) calipers" since 1g and 2g 2-piston calipers are interchangeable. The only difference between them is the hydraulic port (which is irrelevant to the Outlander bracket or rotor). It's only meaningful for determining the style of brake line to use.

So brought this back up from the dead... Because well, a year later I've finally upgraded them!

So I found an 05 outlander rotting in a scrap yard downtown Hamilton, they said I could have the front brakes and brackets for $50 if I take em off myself.

Well, I decided to go grab them on probably the coldest day of the year and as you can imagine it was one hell of a treat getting them off so I won't bore you with details!

Here they are as I picked em up....




As you can see... They're haggard to say the least. I read this:
Electrolysis process

So I concocked one of these and waited to see what happens....



I was pretty impressed that it was actually doing something! This is what they looked like coming out




They go black I guess from the process but, that rust just flakes off with a screwdriver!



And here you can see what the bracket looks like as it came out and after quickly hitting it with a wire brush...



And lastly I got them sandblasted and powdercoated....







I'm pretty impressed with the outcome! A very good bang for buck I think as I paid peanuts for this set-up!

VERY impressive work, to say the least! Though I have to ask - given that they were being sandblasted anyway, do you think there were significant benefits to the electrolysis?

They look sexy as hell

Jeremy - my initial plan was to get my dad to sandblast em at his shop, and I was going to just use paint. I wanted to make his life a little easier so I wanted to get as much off as I could.

When I checked into powdercoating I was impressed with what they would do for the price. So at that point I handed em over.

I'm not too experienced with powdercoating or sandblasting so I wasn't sure what to expect. And when I read/saw the BMW brakes I thought... Wow these outlanders are way worse!

Ah, I gotcha. It is quite impressive how much you get off just by soaking them and wire wheeling them!

And I was actually having this discussion with my painter yesterday - most people assume powder coating is going to be more expensive than paint, and not by a small margin. In my experience they are quite comparable (proper paint vs powder).

Of course if you're just spray bombing it will be a lot cheaper.. you get what you pay for

Me like! Good work haha.

Well sh!t..... Impressive!
Did you leave the boots in throughout the process?