So I got in on the group buy from Ziggy. I was wondering who is running what? As far as the fluid goes. I've been looking at a few different sites and it seems everyone says to run something different.

So what are you going to run or are running?
window washer fluid?
straight water?
mix your own?
straight meth?
Just looking for opinions to help me make a better decision.

I am going to start out using the windshield washer reservoir. I will see how that works first. Haven't really decided what mixture I am going to run yet. I still need to do some more research before I start using this kit.

I haven't ordered my kit yet because I missed the GB but I plan to also use the rear washer bottle and I am going to price out the difference between using washer fluid vs. buying the methanol by the 5-gallon pail and mixing myself. I will probably go with mixing myself though as my parents work at a paint store and will give me their pricing on it.

I will get distilled water from the store and mix it 50/50 in old washer fluid containers and likely keep a spare in the car at all times.

Everyone start researching Klotz fuel lube. Due to the extrememly abrasive properties of the Methanol its best to use some kind of lube.

I get my meth from Home Depot for $8 for a 4L jug, and I mix in distilled water. Be careful when using windshield washer fluid, as many of them contain detergents, and ALL have dyes in them. Most ppl now a days stay away from the "smurf piss".

I had WAY better results using a 50/50 meth/water mix as opposed to smurf piss which is supposedly 50/50 as well. I'll stick with the homebrew from now on. I'm going 75/25 this year anyways!

26 psi on 91 octane with the 50/50 - NO KNOCK

How long do you guys find it lasts. Say using a 50/50 mix and using the stock windshield washer reservoir. How often do you have to refill?

It depends how much you drive, how much you lay on the gas, city driving, highway driving, etc. If you have bought the kit, just put it in and find out for yourself.

I only used mine at the track last year but I made maybe 10-12 runs that day and used about 1/2 the rear reservoir (about 2L).

I just got mine in the mail today. I was reading through the manual that came with it. Where is everybody mounting there nozzles.

I as well use my rear tank for the resevoir. While it works well its smallish. I run 2 0.4mm nozzles, so that may be more than you might. Lots of people run one .7mm. Still ok tho, just keep your eye on it.

I don't use my injection for fuel, I have plenty of that should I need it. I use it to suppress knock and cool intake charges. I have found no difference between the cheapest windshield washer fluid and half methanol half distilled water.

Use the cheapest fluid tho, it is just alchohol and water with minimal dye. The more expensive stuff is more blue and may contain other things you don't need or want.

As for lube, if you have a pump and solenoid rated for methanol, there should be no need for any additives. And in the small quantities that you should be injecting it shouldn't hurt the engine itself. Its only on when you are in boost and pumping thru lots of fuel and air. And then only for a few seconds at a time.

Installed mines a few days ago, and just got to drive it yesterday. All I can say is, 25 psi and no knock and 22 degrees of timing by redline. I bought the 4 quart tank and I easily finished 1 litre with a lot of hard driving and tuning, but I usually don't drive like that so it should last longer. The car is pulling much much harder than before, like it did on race gas, pretty much the same effect.
I have a nice big intercooler I installed over the winter so I am using a 75/25 ratio meth/water as cooling isn't much of a problem.

Also installed the M10 nozzle, and I think thats good enough for the evo3 16g, once I go bigger turbo will install the M12 that came with the kit. I picked up Methyl Hydrate which you can easily get from Cnd tire or Home depot. Its 99.9% methanol.

All I can say one of the best mods I've done so far, and the engines just loves it and the car pulls like it doesn't want to stop. I'm pretty sure it can take more boost, as I am getting 0 knock and crazy ass timing!

So, I am courious as that what people are chooseing for there meth.
WHere are you getting it and what namebrand?
I will be needing it soon.

I can't wait to install it!! I am going to get everything hooked up without the nozzle first, to tune the car without the meth, then add the juice.

Going to be running an E316G with a 22X9X3 FMIC and 780cc injectors. After she's all tuned with little to no knock, I am going to tap the TB elbow for the nozzle and go from there.

Why tune twice?

I guess one reason is to see out of curiosity just how much more boost can be run, and how the fuel tuning changes, once the meth is added.

Another would be to keep a good non-meth tune in your back pocket for running dry.

Well what octane gas are you using? Methanol has an octane rating of 117 . The higher the octane, the higher the resistance to detention. I'm like Reza, I let my huge IC do it's job and I take advantage of the extra octane. Shiit, I barely use water anymore, 20% at most M15 nozzle here

Zacktley

I want to tune twice to get a good base tune and then up the anty.

"I guess one reason is to see out of curiosity just how much more boost can be run, and how the fuel tuning changes, once the meth is added."

That, I'll buy, and agree with... Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying Ryan SHOULDN'T. Just curious as to why. Tinkering.. it's in all of us, apparently.

"Another would be to keep a good non-meth tune in your back pocket for running dry."

Unless you can switch back and forth based on a float switch, or pressure switch (in the WI injection line), this won't help you if you "run dry" at WOT.

Hook up a boost controller bypass based on a float switch. Run out of water/meth and you're down to 8 psi. (Or whatever your wastegate spring is). That should be enough to keep the knock knasties away.

^^^
By "running dry", I meant continuously.
Disable the WI, and go back to the non-meth tune.

I'd say that float/bypass is essential, I don't think I'd run WI without it.

Anyone have any pictures of the nozzles and how it's connected? I think I'm missing a fitting or two.

I still dont see here what everyones useing.
And I have my own dyno. So I will be tuneing without meth at first at 13psi.
Then once I am happy with that I will go up with the boost till I get knock. So I know how far I can go without meth for when I do run out and still be safe.
And then the meth will be added and continue up from there.
I might get it on the dyno this weekend and tune it at the 13 psi its set at now. Just to have it done.

Sorry about the crap ass photo Tim. I took it with my cell. The 90 degree elbow goes outside the I/C pipe and the nozzel goes on the inside and screw into the elbow. I do believe there is a washer that goes in there as well. I just now remembered about that. There were I believe 2 washers included so it will be one of those. Hope this helps somewhat.

Yes, I wanna learn what it does when I add it. I like to tinker, and very much into the "lets see what happens when I do... THIS"

Guessing a float switch isn't incl. with our kit eh? I want to run with a float switch so my engine doesn't go BANG at 26PSI with no Meth.

Ahhh... Methanol injection... the LEGAL NOS.

Ryan W, thanks!

Can you take a picture of the fitting used to feed the pump from the tank as well? Is it a 1/4 NPT 90deg push fitting?

float switches ARE available as an option..$24.95 plus taxes

Tim, The picture is pretty self explanatory. The fitting going into the tank obviousley taps into the bottom of the tank. They are all push fittings. Notice where the washer goes between the fitting and the tank. Keep in mind that there is an input and output to the pump (as stressed in the manual). Make sure the fluid will be flowing in the direction of the arrows on the top of the pump.

Just a curious question. If you can turn the system on and off by a switch (assuming its called the floating switch?) When would you spray? During boost or before boost? Is it safe to have it spray during idle? All the time?

During boost. (Most set the boost switch for approx. 1/2 their boost pressure.)

Safe during idle? Yes. No reason for it though.

All the time? How big of a reservoir are you using!?

Is this the progressive switch you are referring to?

Yes

thanx guys. I was kind of worried if you start spraying before you boost, you might do some kind of damage to your engine.

No. It is the pressure switch that comes with the base kit.

IE: I run 24 psi of boost. I set the switch to turn the water injection on ~12psi.

I read that some people installed the pump in the spare tire location. Just wondering where you can tap the power source near there. Also, does anyone have any pics of this install? Or any pics of any kind of install. I just ordered the kit from Ziggy and wondering what would be the best the cleanest look.

thnx

I installed mines under the hood. 4 litre tank right infront of the transmission, next to the coolant overflow bottle. I found this to be a nice location, lots of room and the air filter is right on top of it so its stealthy. The pump is mounted right infront of the battery box. I am probably using 4 feet of tubing from the reservoir to the pump, then less than 1 foot of tubing from the pump to the nozzle in the UICP. All the wiring and boost switch is right next to the pump as well. Its a very short route for the meth and it works well.

I run the rear squirter resevouir as the tank, the pump is behind the panel behind the drivers seat(side panel), and the soleniod is on the firewall. All lines are hidden as best as possible, and all wiring too. Nozzles are tapped into the upper intercooler pipe, after the bov.

What would be the best nozzle to use for my application. I have 9:1 pistons and using the EVO 16G @ 19 psi and a front mount intercooler and 650 injectors. I'm kind of scared of hydro locking my engine since water doesn't compress that well.

thanx guys

got any pics?

I got the Devils own kit now and the nozzle part is different from what I expected. Since the nozzle has to be installed from the inside, do you guys feel that it is very secure from air leaks and how often to you have to replace the washers you figure.

It is pretty secure once you tighten it up. I haven't done a boost leak test yet. I guess if you don't mess up the washer it can be reused if your changing nozzles. Maybe Ziggy has some extra washers, unless you can get them from somewhere else.
I have pics of my setup, just don't have any place to host them.

can you email the pics please. Currently a friend has an extra set of nozzles from SnowPerformance and I'm thinking about installing those instead. Not too sure yet. I'd ahve to wled on a bung for those nozzles.

talon.94@gmail.com

Quick question. The kit came with 3 sizes, M3, M7 and the M12. I'm assuming this is in gph. Anyways, I plugged in my spec in a calcutor to determine the size I would need and it states that I need a 4.65 gph. Would it be ok to go with the M7 or go down to an M3?

Please help.

I'm running the M10. Start with the M7 and see how it runs.

thank you

I started with an M3.. went to an M5.. I just dropped in the M7.

(Thanks again, Ziggy, and PPG!) So far, so good.

I AM wondering what an M10 would do now, though..

Just so you guys know, I DO have nozzles in stock if you want to try something different...

Sorry to keep bugging you guys about this topic, but I have another question.

A friend of mine helped me install the kit and he told me not to thread the connections on the pump all the way cuz it might crack. Now I have a little leak on the connection on the pump that goes to the nozzles. Did you guys thread it all the way? Or 3/4 of the way?

About 3/4 of the way is good. Thread it in a little more till it stops leaking.

Can I hijack this post too?

I wired in my pump yesterday. I wanted to make sure the pump would work so I unplugged the relay and jumped a wired going from the red wire on the pump to the 12V power wire. (everything was grounded properly) So with the other end of the water line pointing away from the car I jumped the wires and the pump started pumping. It was running for maybe 5 seconds and then it sounded like there was resistance, because it stopped and starting clicking. (sounded kinda like a bad starter clicking) It pulled fluid out of the washer reservoir, but none came out the other end. (check valve was not installed)

So everytime I try to jump the wires now, it runs for about a second and then just clicks. Any ideas? Ziggy shipped it to me, but it was very well packaged, so I doubt it was damaged in the mail.

thanx again

Just wondering if anyone is closing the gap on your spark plugs.

I've made no changes running as high as 28psi with no issues.

Thnx Kevin.

Was just curious if most went with the pressure switch or the MAP sensor/progressive controller setup?

I went with the pressure switch. I was going to go with the progressive kit but after doing some research I found that a lot of guys seem to be using just the basic kit with the pressure switch and are getting great results.

Most went with the basic kit. Most NON DSM sales have been progressive kits. I think only ONE or maybe two in the original group of about 19 was a progressive kit..

I guess thats the ol cheeper is better DSM thinking coming into play Seems like both will work equally as well but having the injection control progressive to boost seems like a good idea. I wanted to pick up a MAP sensor so I could log actual boost with my DSMlink, so the progressive kit may be the way for me to go, as a std kit + a MAP sensor is almost the cost of a progressive kit.

How long does it take for your turbo to go from 0 psi to your set-boost?

I honestly don't think turning the injection on "progressively" over that amount of time does anything.

But.. I'm also cheap.

Actually never thought about it that way. From 0 psi till full boost would be a few seconds (haven't ever paid attention) but I believe even with the progressive you start injecting around half your desired boost level. So if is the case, while the time from 0 to 12 psi would probably be a second or two, the time from 12 to 24psi would be a split second. I was thinking they would be pretty close in price ($40-50) when you add the MAP sensor to the base kit but looks like there still about $120 difference for the controller. So I may just go with the trend & cheep out

Exactly what I thought. I was gonna get the progressive, but just went with the basic, although there is no harm in getting the progressive.

Ya, the basic kit PLUS Map sensor with connector is still $90.USD less than the Progressive kit that includes the map sensor. That $90.USD is basically the difference between the pressure switch and the progressive controller...

Has anyone installed an LED when the pump turns on. As soon as I get time, I think I'll try to hook up an LED so I know when the pump is pumping.

Hmmmmm. That's a good idea. I never thought about that.

I am installing my snow system very soon. A few questions.I have gm maf blow throw pretty close to my tb. Anyone running gm maf also close to the injection and any bad effects noticed. I guess might be able to redo piping and move it farther away if have to.

^^^ I know the hot-wires in the GM mas isn't supposed to get wet, so I wouldn't want to be spraying it! I'll be running my 3.5" mas before the turbo to eliminate any possibility of a problem.

I tried to connect the LED and it doesn't seem to work. I've spliced a wire from the power wire on the pump to the LED. Am I missing something?

Hmm well should be able to move that maf farther away from the tb no big deal don't want to go draw thru my blow off vents to atmosphere.

It would be nice if dsmlink would finally have speed density option so could just drop the maf already. But they are taking forever in bringing out the new version of it.

Kevin you are on your new turbo now..3575 wasn't it?
What kind of boost and timing and afr can you don on your alc with that and are your running 100% meth? E85 sounds very promising once we get a lot more stations.

Isn't using more then 50% methanol harmful for the pump? The manufacturer recommends not more then 50% methanol to be used on the pump.

I know that the sureflow pumps (used in the Devil's Own kit) are tested and proven to run pure methanol without a problem. Not sure about the others.

I'm still waiting on flanges to make up an 02 housing for it. I'll let you know when its running a I have a base tune.

On the Devils own web site, it states that the sureflow pump is not recommended past 50% meth.

I remember reading somewhere on something in the kit that they were good for 100% methanol. I am going to look into it again.

Here is the link

Shurflo Pump

Have some more questions for the users. I was origionally thinking I would just use the factory washer fluid container but I was planning on just using washer fluid. It seems like thats not the best idea & I think I'll mix my own water/meth, so I was wondering where most mounted their tanks, in the trunk or in the engine compartment? Being a 2g engine compartment space is very limited, so it will probably end up in the trunk. I was thinking on going with the 4 quart tank. If you have your tank in the trunk are you running the line through the interior of the car or on the exterior? Will the line that comes in the kit be enough or should I order extra?

I'm thinking I'll probably go with the basic kit, 4 quart tank & a level switch that I will hook to the pump & a dash LED. Are there other things that I should be picking up as well?

I've got mine installed in the engine compartment. I'll gets some pic tonight. I've got a 1G though and plenty of room where the air filter used to be.

Hi Guys,

What is everyone useing for their mix of meth injection? I see on the Devils Own site they say to use "Super TECH windsield washer fluid -20" but all I can find is -40 which I would think would have more meth.

I see some people are just buying straight meth from home depot but where do you get distiled water from?

How many people are just running pure meth?

I'm using -40 wiper fluid. You are correct, it has more meth than the -20 fluid.

You can get distilled water from any grocery store.

Unless I were to pick up a small fuel cell, I wouldn't feel comfortable running pure meth. Having a flimsy plastic container filled with a flammable liquid under the hood/in the car doesn't sit well with me.

Even the wiper fluid will burn. It takes a bit to get it going, but it does have enough meth in it.

So how well does the -40 work for you? What psi are you running?Are you useing the wallmart supertech stuff?

I hear you with the flammable thing, doesn't sound like a great idea to run pure meth.

You can get methanol from home depot, it's labelled as Methyl Hydrate, 99.99% pure. Price is less than $7 for a gallon. You can also get deionized water at any Canadian Tire as well.

BTW I have now upgraded to a single M14 nozzle from the M10. My boost is set to spike to 29 psi then fall to around 26.5 psi by redline. The boost spike makes some nice mid rpm torque.

Car seems to be running more stronger with the M14 nozzle, without no quench at all. Figured I would just skip the M12 and use the M14. Use the biggest nozzle that gives you no quench, if you want to run high boost.

Looks like I'll be on this bandwagon in the next couple weeks as well. This supertech washer fluid, is it as good as a mix your own meth/water solution or is it preferred to mix your own? How do the two compare price wise?

Looks like the kit comes with a M7 as the largest size, I added a M10 as well. Think it should be fine for a "street tune", running 22-24 psi.

I tried the windshield washer stuff and it worked fine. It works out to about $10 for a jug of Methyl Hydrate and a jug of deionized water which is less than $2. Also same price for 2 jugs of windshield washer fluid, depending on the brand. Take your pick. I prefer mixing my own knowing its 99.99% pure meth, instead of guessing the mix in windshield washer fluid.

The one time I used the smurf piss, it was a holiday and Home Depot and Cnd Tire were closed, and I just happened to run out of it that day. So I just pulled up at Sunoco and poured in the "blue" coloured -40 washer fluid. Worked great!

Good to know, atleast there are some options. I was planning on running its own tank but I was curious, I guess if I was to tapp into the factory resevoir & run my own meth/water mix, this wouldn't have any effect on the factory washer pump, wipers, exterior paint etc if I was to spray/use it to wash the windows? If I was using a 50/50 mix, guess its basically what you normally spray on the windshield, without the detergents & dye.

How far away from the thorttle body have you guys mounted the nozzle with best results?

I was thinking further away with larger nozzles would be ideal, giving it more time to mix with the air, with a more equal delivery to all cylinders. I`ll probably be running the m12 nozzle.

Mines mounted about 8-10 inches away from the throttle body.

Anybody running with a nozzle installed in the throttle body elbow?

The -40 seems to work fine for me, but I'm only running about 19* of timing at 6000 rpm at 25 psi of boost. I'm using No Name wiper fluid. Also, it's all I've ever run, so I have no basis for comparison.

With the EVO 3 16G, my "software" dyno (take it with a grain of salt, but it's the best tuning tool I have) tells me the turbo doesn't make any more power at 27 psi than it does at 24 psi.

M7 nozzle right now. I just switched from a 2G maf to a MAFT so my tuning is a little off right now. I'm not sure what A/F ratio I'm running at the moment, but it looks like I can add some more timing in.

You'll probably find that timing makes a BIG difference, while A/F ratio doesn't. If you need to run richer to add timing (too a point, but, isn't that what tooooning is all about? finding that "point"?) you'll make more power.

Todd: when I added the MAFT/GM MAF (a couple days ago) I placed the GM MAF in my UIC pipe, after the BOV. Doing so caused me to move my WI nozzle to the TB elbow. I've found no difference. It's about 3" away from the TB. It used to be about 8" away.

Steve, I had mines set at 25 psi and it felt great. I cranked the boost upto 29 psi and it didn't feel like I gained much more so I figured it was producing more heat. So I figured more cooling and more meth would give me more power.

M14 nozzle now and I can definately feel the extra torque when it hits 29 psi. The difference b/w the spike to 29psi and just 25 psi solid is quite noticable. Before the M14 I was seeing just a few counts of knock when hitting 29 psi, but now zero and still 22-23 degrees timing by redline. I get some nice torque steer (depending on road conditions) in 2nd now when the boost hits 29 psi.

To be quite honest I would have put in an M15 if Ziggy had one, but M14 is the largest.

I definately feel more power at 27 psi than 24 psi. Try an M10 or bigger, you won't go back

If I was running a bigger turbo than this, I don't think I would be using anything less than 2 x M10's.

I was running one M15, but now I have two M14s on the way!

Now thats what I'm talkin about

i have cooligmist.com setup...

and i run 50 meth 50 bottled water...

i got a resovior tank from a vw jetta in the scrapyard 4L

it last forever....

i bought a 5 gal bucket of methanol brand new from a fuel place in kitchener....and i barly am even into it...lol

i made 10 pulls 460hp on the dyno....and i sued 1/8 of the 4L

it works amazing....

alot of power and you can run at least 5lbs more boost...and the exhaust smells like a nitro car...lol

worth every cent!!!

and braging right galore..lol

I was wondering where all the 2g's are hiding their pump?

I installed my pump underneeth the spare tire, beside stock washer tank. I taped into the tank, and followed the brake lines up to the engine bay.

Pictures of installs are always good . Pretty please with cheese on top?

I got my 1G all connected as well. Very discreet and hidden unless you start tearing the car apart. I'll snap pictures and host for Mr. Langskin's 2G if he says it's cool.

My old 95 had the pump installed UNDER the spare, between the washerfluid tank and the front of that little area in the trunk. I used a juice jug type container on the passenger side of the trunk area. You would never think I was using that to inject into the upper intercooler pipe.

For my 97 I picked up a tank from coolingmist.com that holds the pump directly in the center of itself. Neat little setup. Not so hidden, but alot more professional. I'll be installing that again in the weeks to come.

I noticed with 550s and a small 16g that I would get full timing (21 degrees) on my s-afc tuned setup. Ran a 12.95 @ 104.32 at luskville.

Pics would be great I had heard of others using the spare tire compartment but without the spare in there. I'll have to see what I can work out with the spare in there.

My other question is on the Devilsown nozzle, sounds like the washer is supposed to be installed on the inside, is this what everyones doing? Then you just tighten the black fitting down until it pulls the nozzle in snug? Is everyone taping the pipe as well?

Looks like they sent me the M3, M5, M10 & M12 nozzles. Currently set at 19 psi & have to remove up to 4 deg timing in mid range to prevent knock w/ low 10's air/fuel. Want to run 22-24 psi, without removing any timing & lean it out abit (~11 to 1). Do you think the M5 will allow me to do this or should I go with the 10?

The spare tire fits perfectly over the pump how I mounted it. Here`s some quick pics i took. I did a rough tune last night with my m7 nozzle. I have a 50 trim with 850`s, and got it up to 24 psi with high 10`s low 11`s a/f ratio no knock at all. Im gonna go out to the track tonight and see if i can get it dialed in a little better.

If anyone can host some pics for me, let me know and I'll send you pics of my underhood setup.

For the 1G's, I have mine mounted on the rear panel to access the light bulbs for the rear passenger brake light.

I have a 90 tsi fwd, I have install the pump in the trunk behind the panel on the driver side.

I am using the stock reservor and it is pretty small(around a quart) and it does not last long.

Since this install I could run more psi,more timming and less fuel.

That was one of the best mod for the buck.

I have a picture if someone want to put it for me, dont know how.

Steve

I have put the washer in the inside, I have tapped the throttle body elbow and I just put the ratchet in the pipe and hold the black fitting with my hand or a key.

I have start running with the m5 and now I have the m7, I will try the m10 sometimes dont loose your time with the m3 with your setup.

Steve

Here is some pics of my install. I've installed the pump where the stock IC used to be.

So I can just use the stock windsheild washer fluid resevoir in my trunk right? I mean I don't have nozzles in my carbon fibre hood anyway. Then as a bonus I get the benefit of having an in dash low fluid indicator and already have a line running to the engine bay to use.

You can use the factory resevoir, thats what I ended up doing. The pump fits nicely in the front portion of the spare tire well, under the spare, like the pics Eric posted. If you want to use the low level light that comes stock, make sure you mount the nozzle inlet low enough, so the light comes on first. I guess you could rig something up to use one of the factory holes, since you no longer have washer jets but if you can't work that, I placed my fitting in the very back center of the tank on the lowest portion that was a verticle wall (placed it on the backside of the tank,as the liquid will run to the back under acceleration). There isn't quite enough surface area to get the washer thats included to sit flush, so I just gound the one side abit flat & used some goop to ensure a good seal. I wanted to make sure I'd see the light before the meth got to low so this seemed like the best location.

As for the line from factory, you shouldn't use that. Its just a rubber line & the pumps for these kits produce around 150psi.

I was planning on running the line under the car with the other lines as I didn't think going through the car interior was the best idea, what are others doing here?

Edit: Was also wondering what air/fuel ratio everyones running on there setup? I believe people run 12 or so to 1 but I didn't want to run mine that lean for DD (will for the track). Was thinking more like 11 to 1. Now I know leaner air/fuel will make more power but my question is if I was running the same air/fuel ratio on both straight pump & then with water/meth injection, would there be any decrease in performance?

Ah that's a lot of pressure. Thanks Daren, makes sense.

Has anyone from this post tried to connect an LED light to the pump? I tapped into the main power wire from the pump and tapped it into an existing alarm LED. Doesn't seem to work. Do I need to get a separate LED for the pump?

^^^
12v is probably too much for the LED.
Put a 500ohm resistor between the pump power and the LED.
I don't know if having the alarm on that same positive is going to be a problem, also where the ground goes might matter too.