Got my 3" stainless exhaust put in at Magnus today. Wanted to thank Marco and the boys for a great job.

Only thing is though that since installing the new exhaust I have been experiencing boost creep.

Marco says hell fix the problem with a little porting work. I know he'll fix the problem cause hes a champ at this stuff, but I was just wondering if anyone has had the same problem?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

One thing I will say though is that the car looks sick with my FAT 5" outlet, and after having had the exhaust done I STRONGLY recommend that anyone lookin for good quality exhaust work should definitley drop Marco a line.

Word Marco....Word.....

------------------
4 CYLINDERS UNDER THE HOOD MEANS MORE ROOM FOR HORESPOWER !!




[This message has been edited by Joe Pirrotta (edited February 16, 2000).]

Creep after installing a 3" exhaust is very common. What happens is you've made the exhaust look like the easiest path to follow rather then the wastegate (to an extent) so when the wastegate opens instead of the extra exaust immediatly flowing there like it should some of it just continues into the exaust. This means the boost control system can't quite level your boost out and it creeps higher and higher. What you need to do is make the wastegate look the easiest path again by making it bigger. So by Marco porting the wastegate it will get rid of the creep.

Later...

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

Hey. I've always wondered:

Does a 3"+ exhaust really benefit THAT much if your downpipe is only 2.5"? I'm sure the answer is yes (be it less of a boon if the DP was 3"), but the downpipe would then become a restriction, no?

My current DP is 2.5" as is the rest of my exhaust. I have an exhaust cutout bypassing the cat and muffler for the track (good job by Mitas Exhaust).

------------------
Allan
Mazda 626 1994
T3 super 60 turbo
RX7 FM intercooler
V6 2.5L KL03

If you have a 3" cat-back and the stock downpipe there is still a good increase in power even though the dp is still a big resistance. If you decrease the back pressure in any of the three exhaust components (dp, cat and cat-back) you reduce the overall back pressure which gives you a boost in performance. That said... reducing the back pressure in all components as much as possible (a full Magnus 3" exhaust) makes a huge difference. Going from a 2.5" dp to a 3" dp... I can't tell ya how big the difference would be... but it would make a difference.

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

Allan the entire exhaust system for me is 3" including the Downpipe and belive me a full 3" system is a huge difference. I went form a full 2.5 system to 3 and its like night and day.

Mike my creep is really weird it doesnt keep goin up though. It starts at about 10 psi (2500rpm) 14 psi (4500rpm) and then it levels off at 19 psi. Which really doesnt concern me cause I run 22 psi at the track. What does concern me is the way teh boost climbs. Its a smooth increase in boost it literally jumps from 10 to 14 to 19 at WOT. That's the reason I want to port cause of the eratic climb in boost pressure. Plus I dont seem to have any control with my Profec B either. Im pretty sure that porting will do the trick.

But I will say this when the boost hits the car rockets down the street. I noticed a massive increase in preformance. Im pretty sure that I freed up about 30hp. Going to vericom the car this weekend if the streets dry up.

------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!

[This message has been edited by Joe P (edited February 16, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joe P (edited February 16, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joe P (edited February 16, 2000).]

As an old engineering prof of mine once told me, there are only 3 equations that really matter, you just swap the variables depending on the situation. (or something to that effect).
If you're comfortable with electronics envision an exhaust system as several resistors in series with each representing an exhaust component such as the dp or cat or pipes.
Whenever you replace an existing component with a lower resistance one, the system resistance drops. According to DaveB, the exhaust is the biggest offender so that piece has the highest resistance and should be swapped first.
Clear as mud?

Well put

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

Heres another question. Getting the CAT installed today cause I got busted and it hasnt even been a DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The cop slaps me with a 600 dollar fine and tells me to get one installed before tommorow and he'll drop the charge. I cant beleive this sh!t I know tons of guys running without cats for years and i get busted on the first day. Oh well sh!t happens I guess.

Here's my second question....

With a full stainless 3" system will I lose considerable power with a 3" high flow cat running on the track? I know its better running a straight exhaust but what Im wondering is the actual difference in numbers at the track. What do you guys think.... will I lose a few tenths running with a high flow cat or is the difference minimal? Getting it done today and im wondering if its worth sepnding the extra cash for the quick disonnect clamps.

Has anyone run with a 3" straight and with a cat on a 3" system? If so what were your diffrences in et's at the track?

Thanks.

------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!

How did they know u dont have a CAT?

------------------
Blue-Lighted
@$$-whooping-Grocery-Getter!
www.geocities.com/diamondracer

I was at a light and the cop was right behind me. The light turns green and I drive forward nice and easy but as soon as I started rolling forward he pulls me over. He walks up to my car and says "that cannon on the back of your car is spewin out some rich fumes". He looks underneath the car with a flashlight IN A fracking SNOWSTROM I might add, and slaps me the fine. Just my luck huh a cop with automotive knowledge.

But if you can guys give me some input on my previous question about running at the track.

------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!

[This message has been edited by Joe P (edited February 16, 2000).]

I got pulled over and accused that I had no cat, but I did. Then after he went and looked at it, he hinted that it was gutted, but then I said it wasn't. He said my muffler was illegal, but I said it was just a tip. Then he let me go and said I was lucky because he didn't have a sound meter with him.

Put a cat, and then have it checked out with a mechanic, and then go to court for it. $600 is alot of f'n money.

------------------
Fast & Awesome Handling
'90 AWD
$h!tbox

Why not just remove the cat at the track? Don't put on a test pipe either... just run an open exhaust past the downpipe A couple of guys running 2.5" exhausts said this makes about a .2~.3 second difference over having thier 2.5" high flow cat and cat back still in the equation.

Later...

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

Arnel at Marcos place is putting on a high flow 3" cat. Its emmisions legal and so is the muffler so I dont need a mechanic to check it.

And naaaaa I never liked running open exhaust at the track. Wanna do it either straight pipe or with the 3 inch cat on. Only thing I want to know is that if its worth spending the cash on the quick disonnects if removing the cat for a test pipe at the track is worh it. You say your buddy ran 2 to 3 tenths faster open exhaust huh. Well Im leavin in a few hours to go do this but it would be nice to know how much of a difference it really is at the track considering the 3" cat is high flow. Knowing me anyways Ill go witht the quick disconnects. Any feedback would still be great and let you alll know what I did tonight.

All this cause of some rookie assed hotshot cop who knows stuff about cars.

------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!

I forgot... there's a guy I did the MAF mod for named Steve the lives in Brampton that has one of Marco's 3" jobs. He originally had a test pipe in there and he had to put in a cat for emmissions testing... he said he was really dissappointed at the power loss. He said he could really feel the difference. This is not a direct experience I'm passing on... I'm just telling you what he said to. By the way his beast had 260 hp at the wheels before the 20G he just got put in

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

[This message has been edited by Mike Jackson (edited February 16, 2000).]

Tough break, Joe. That sucks. But he said he'd drop it if you got the cat in so he's not totally all anal...

Get an exhaust cutout. JC Whitney sells'em and Mitas exhaust in Toronto does as well. It's juts a bypass so that your cat and muffler are taken out of the equation.

I was thinking of getting a 3" cat-back put in, but my DP is only 2.5" (room is not there for a 3" DP in this config) and the incremental add in street only power is worth the additional outlay in $. (As I''ll be running without the cat/muffler at the track)

It's chepa and works.

------------------
Allan
Mazda 626 1994
T3 super 60 turbo
RX7 FM intercooler
V6 2.5L KL03

Not trying to be a prick, but I always like to run the car at the track the way it is on the street. What do you achieve by removing your exhaust at the track? Even with my Stang I left on the exhaust, while other guys would go `open headers'.

------------------
Fast & Awesome Handling
'90 AWD
$h!tbox

I've never removed mine... but I might try it this year a couple of times to see how restrictive my '$30' cat-back is. I support running your car in street form at the track as a rule of thumb... but if all you want is more speed and a better time and you don't car about being street... well who are we to judge. Now if that same guy makes a big deal about being fast and gets hot headed... well then I'd tell him to put the car back together and beat me before you crow

Later....

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

I agree Peter thats exactly why I dont want to run open exhaust. But running without a CAT is not wrong either. Without the CAT I can maximize the potential of my car at the track. Its a matter of preference. Not tryin to flame you but if I can maximize my et at the track without having to spend 1000 bucks to gain that axtra 2 to 3 tenths of a second I will. Whatever it takes to put me in the lead is my motto. And back home on the streets I can hold my own with a full exhaust. Thats why I want to know if its really worth doing the quick disconnect clamps. For the track ...not the streets. Besides at the track ANYTHING GOES!!!! Its up to the driver of the car to decide how far he wants to go. Whether he gains the respect of other drivers or not. Besides in the end its the timeslips at the track that talks with the winner having bragging rites, while the loser walks regardless of how he got there. Again not flamin you just express my opinion towards your remarks. But at the same time I preffer having my car in street trim so I know Im ruuning as fast on the streets as I am on the track. Im just trying to experiment and what better place is there than to do it on the track.------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!

[This message has been edited by Joe P (edited February 16, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joe P (edited February 16, 2000).]

Sorry man I don't see the difference between not running a cat and not running a cat or catback... they both make you street illegal. So if you want to keep your street legal braggin rights then you have to be street legal period.

Just my .02

Chacon son guit (or how ever it's spelt)

No flame intended just voicing my opinion.

------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

Ok let me put it this way on street trim I ran low 13's with a 2 1/2" exhaust with the cat. Now that I got the 3" exhaust with a CAT on and the porting work I'll be in the 12's for sure. As for all this crap about street and illegal you can take that to the golf course. Cause when your at the track its to win!! If your prefernce is to keep the car stock then good for you. But this whole mentality of keeping it steert legal at the track is a bunch of crap. So let me see... if I go and get a custom intake manifold and a front mount intercooler that is considered to be way beyond a stock application isnt it? The point Im trying to make is WHO CARES ABOUT WHOS RUNNING STREET SETUP AT THE TRACK OR NOT..its all up to the prefernce of the driver. My car is always setup at the track the way I run it on the street anyways.... the only difference is that I have the option of removing my cat with a set of quick disconnects on my new 3' setup. I try it both ways and I see the results. All the guys you read about in the mags are far from steet setup... i.e. the Extreme Racing Talon. That is going to the extreme if your pockets can afford it but I dont know about you but I get a rush at seein a Talon run down the track in 9.77 secs. If you can run that kinda time in a pure street setup then I want you to work on my car. Other than that this whole argument about keepin it street legal on the track is a bunch of B.S. and it does not make any sense. I see a low 12 comin to me in a few years and wether or not its street legal thats fine by me. Its a sad sad thing when someone says "oh I lost because that car that guy was drivin wasnt stock". Well then maybe those people should take up another sport. Dont get me wrong though I have great respect for those who can run quick times on a complete street legal setup as well but again this whole argument about street or not street legal at the track is redundant to talk about.

And bye the way I want to thank Magnus once again for a wicked job. The car has never ran better with a cat i might add

P.S. Mike I am not flaming you at all I am just addressing the previous comments. But one thing is for sure i do agree that to brag about street legal at the track the car should be street legal.

------------------
4 CYLINDERS UNDER THE HOOD MEANS MORE ROOM FOR HORESPOWER !!




[This message has been edited by Joe Pirrotta (edited February 16, 2000).]

well I can tell you I have felt a difference from running a cat to now cat thats why I offer the quick diconnect option. Dropping the cat aint cheating its called having the edge, and I make that that much easier, one nut and no gaskets its out in a minute. i understand that people like the street rim idea after all its what club DSm drills into you from the start go fast with class.
but everybody knows me as a lowclass muthafu#$a anyway ao I don't car, If it means i have to kick my girlfriend out of the passenger seat to win I'm gonna do it,
If I can gain any more horspower from anything and I feel its worth it, I'll do it.
Cause when you get to the land of the nines my friends, they dont care what condition the leather seats are in they just want autographs and asian honeys to pose with ya for tire ads.
As some of you may know I once raced on the street my favorite was tightening my nitrous bottle all the way OPEN with a wrench, I'd have someone check the bottle, to see that it was closed, they would try and close it but it was so tight all the way open, they'd be fooled thinking it was closed.
And you know what happens to a fool and his money.

That nitrous trick is great Marco! Brilliant!

And about racing at the track. I didn't say street legal, I said street trim. I want to know what I run on the street. I don't go around whining that the next guy isn't in street trim and I was.

All I'm saying is, since I was racing the Stang at the strip 10 years ago, I could never see why my freinds would drop thier exhaust for the track. But that's not just your cat right, because we never ran a cat or two on our factory exhaust. They wanted to bypass everything, which didn't make sense to me, because I invested in a good exhaust even way back then, and they had these press-bent 2" exhausts with stock mufflers.

And what are we comparing our cars to the `Extreme Machine' for? We aren't running 9's. (yet )

------------------
Fast & Awesome Handling
'90 AWD
$h!tbox

Hhhhmmm Marco I think you're on to something there... maybe a trap door in the floor just below the passenger seat to dump the excessive load when needed. Or maybe some sort of ejection seat to launch the gf/wife out the sunroof on a moments notice

It's a damn good thing my wife doesn't keep tabs on my posts to this board

Street trim, street legal, no cat, no muffler... who gives a sh#t. Just bring it on... it's all good

Later...


------------------
Mike J

-Quadcylla-
92 Laser RS-T, FWD

Vortex Racing
http://www3.sympatico.ca/robin.jackson2/HomePage.htm

[This message has been edited by Mike Jackson (edited February 17, 2000).]

Peter, I hear ya. But (I'm sure you know this, I'm just going over my position on this) with turbo cars exhaust restrictions are even more of a power killer than on say V8s.

An open exhaust will net you real power gains at the track. I'd run like that ALL the time except for three reasons:

1) The cops (less of a reason for me -- I've run with my exhaust cutout open a couple of times on the street but the 4 doro sleeper-mobile definitely draws less fuzz attention than most cars)
2) The noise is enough to wake up neighbours/set off car alrms. NOT cool to deal with.
3) I don't want to dump more bad stuff intothe air than I have to (yeah, yeah bleeding heart liberal)

But just try it out on the dyno -- Some turbo guys see big time (20-30 HP!) gains due to their set ups. Of course, most won't see #s that high, but...

It's next to free (an exhaust cut out), easy to put on/take off, and nets ya good gains. Why not? Cheap + power = good.



------------------
Allan
Mazda 626 1994
T3 super 60 turbo
RX7 FM intercooler
V6 2.5L KL03

Exhaust doesn't help much on a V8? When I switched to full length headers, and 2 1/2" manderel bent pipes with dynomax superturbos (and changing jets) on my stang from manifolds and 2" crimped exhaust, I picked up 5 tenths and 5mph.

And I love setting off car alarms with the Talon or Stang. Great fun . Especially doing it repeatedly to the same car(s) . My wife doesn't see my humour in it though.

I see your point about dropping your exhaust at the track (cutout), but will never do it myself. Not until I run 9's that is

------------------
Fast & Awesome Handling
'90 AWD
$h!tbox

Oh, and btw, both my cars wake up the neighbours when I come home late at night . Especially the Stang!
http://silverstone.fortunecity.com/mansell/457/Stang.jpg


------------------
Fast & Awesome Handling
'90 AWD
$h!tbox

I think gutted cats are in order. Who wants to supply them in 3" and 2.5" This way you can go to Millys with no cat and get no tickets.

Word up Marco thats exactly what I was tryin to say.

------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!

Peter: Not quite. I don't think I said that exhaust doesn't help much on a V8. More like exhaust can be an even BIGGER restriction on turbo cars . This can especially true of upgraded turbo units or cars that aren't turbo to begin with (you know, econo-cars with OEM crimp bent 1.5" exhausts). Ha. I dunno, I felt idiotic driving around in my 4 door rattling windows/setting off car alarms when I drove around testing the exhaust cut out.

Supply gutted cats? Just make'em. Take a cat and then take the insides out. Done and done.


------------------
Allan
Mazda 626 1994
T3 super 60 turbo
RX7 FM intercooler
V6 2.5L KL03

I guess my main problem with guys bolting on slicks and opening exhaust and race gas and all that is that they go around on the street bragging about what their car ran.

That's ok, but when they don't acknowledge that they can't run the same time on the street....and the funny thing is that I could run faster on the street because the traction is so much better on street tires. Sometimes they'd go around bragging that they could beat me, and then I'd smoke them (street) , but they'd always have excuses and refer to track times .

Maybe that's why it bothers me.

------------------
Fast & Awesome Handling
'90 AWD
$h!tbox

Peter just curious what are your ET's like?

------------------
4 cylinders under the hood leaves more room for horsepower!!
92 Eagle TSI AWD