Ok, so I changed both the rear brake systems and bled them. When bleeding them (only the rear calipers - would've done all four but the bleeder valves on the front are rusted good!) the brake pedal got firmer and firmer until the bubbles & bleeding was over and by then it was nice and solid. I think great! A pat on the back for me! I check the fluid resevoir and it's at max, then go in the house and clean up.

I come out about 30 minutes later to take her for a soft spin around the block to test the brakes and the pedal is soft as mush! Almost right to the floor to feel braking! I found by pumping the pedal a little an increase of pressure occured and braking improved but had to this every time to get better braking. Checked resevoir and it hasn't moved from the max line.

So, whassup!?! Is there a settling time for brake pressure??!!?? Is it because I didn't bleed the front and there's still some air in the system?

Any ideas or similar experiences?

This next bity is only me venting frustration so ignore if need be:

Also, when I removed the rear left assembly I notice that my parking brake cable brace was held on by - get ready for this - a freakin' plastic tie wrap!! This was because the old caliper bolt hole for the brace had a broken bolt inside and the previous mechanic couln't be bothered I guess. After what I've seen in fixing my car I don't think I'll EVER give her in to those butchers who call themselves mechanics! Bastards!

Happy 2001 by the way!!!!!!



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90 Talon TSI - "Baby"

"See you at the stoplight...!!"

No, there's no "settling" time for the fluid. There's something wrong. If you didn't touch the fronts, you shouldn't need to bleed them (Unless the fluid in the reservoir dropped low enough for air to enter the system there. If that's the case, all 4 wheels will require bleeding. Keep in mind, that if the fluid level dropped low enough at ANY time, air can enter the system. It doesn't have to be just when you're doing the bleed).

How did you do the bleed? Did you have a friend push the pedal for you? Assuming you did the bleed correctly, and you don't have a leak somewhere in the system, then it's probably a good assumption that air entered the system at the reservoir. And if that's the case, it's time for a serious bleed.

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90 TSi FWD
90 TSi AWD w/o popups

It could be something else. My brakes have never been 'par' compared to other DSM's. The pedal is mushy and braking power is only modest, right up to the point where I have 'ABS'. Stomping it to the floor from 100km/h results in no lockup at all, until I slow to 10km/h or so.

Oddly, this also results in extremely short braking distances (although your heart rises in your chest because it doesn't 'feel' like the car is stopping), and these brakes complement my driving style (smooth, no cut and thrust). It's still something I'd like to cure, though.

I've completely bled the system twice, and went with Ford Heavy Duty fluid. This changed nothing. I'd like to blame it on the booster, but it seems to work 'fine'. There's not too much else I can think of, and it's not 'broken' enough to be a priority, unfortunately.

It sounds like air in the system to me.When bleeding it have someone pump the peddle a few times and then hold it down as you crack the bleeder screw.Do that a couple of times on both sides should force the air out. As for the front bleed it from the line instead of those damn bleeder screws which break anyway. If your fluid level didn't drop to low you shouldn't have to do the front at all though.

I have the same problem, I had the master-cylinder replaced and it helped a bit. But my pedal goes almost to the floor on the first pump and is fine after that. The mechanic told me that it was because the calapers need to be taken off and oiled up which I think is a bunch of bull.

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91 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

My Attempt at a website

Can I mention that the pedal firmness before the operation was nice and solid so I'm guessing the bleed didn't go to well or I'll really have to bleed the fronts aswell.
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Ok, so I bled the fronts now and there was an improvement but still too mushy for Toronto driving, you know? Do I need to bleed all 4 at the same session/day?? I think I'll do that tomorrow before work as 6 days without my car is madness!

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90 Talon TSI - "Baby"

"See you at the stoplight...!!"


[This message has been edited by Dominic Rouse (edited January 02, 2001).]

Yeah, I'd do a re-bleed on that (all 4) just to make sure.

I've completely re-greased all my calipers as well, and new pads. Even new calipers. No change...

Well, I did a 4 point bleed this time and the brakes are alive again! A little softer than before on the first few inches of pedal travel so maybe a few air pocket left? I've tried emergency stops and it feels and reacts fine so far but I might 4 bleed one more time this weekend to be sure.

Feelin' pretty groovy (and more confident) that I saved several hundred bones in mechanic costs and learned a lot about our troublesome cars....oh yeah, and I accidentally cut myself and bled on the calipers during the instal so it's christened so that makes it a real job, right? heh he

My new philosophy....starting from the ground up....new tires, new brake sysytem done then springs & shocks next month....then we MOD the engine


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90 Talon TSI - "Baby"

"See you at the stoplight...!!"



[This message has been edited by Dominic Rouse (edited January 18, 2001).]

*Sniff* Brings a tear to my eye when someone does it right. (: And yes, if it doesn't make you bleed, then it doesn't really respect what you're doing to it. (:

It is normal that after removing the calipers off the rotors that you might get a mushy first pump. It should then stay firm. It basically takes up the play when brake boost comes on with a started engine. Moral of th estory is to pump the brakes a few times before blasting out of the driveway. Believe me, I know what I am talking about.

If you are sure that all air bubbles are taken out, and it is still mushy then you probably have binding calipers. You can tell by the pads wearing unevenly at each corner. Usually the inside wears out more than the outside.

Instead of changing the calipers, remove them, the guide pin and the associated bushing and clean the rust from the hole, where the bushing normally sits, with a file.

I had mushy brakes for a couple of years and did exactly what you all did. Finally took time to figure out why and now I have have firm brakes and stop better than I can ever remember. By the way, the "warp rotors" effect that I felt when braking goes away with this cleanup. Saved some $$$ by not needing to change the calipers.

Hope this works for all of you.

91 Red AWD
New to Toronto from Montreal

There's nothing funnier than going to Crappy tire for some parts and see'ing some mechanic bulldozing his way throught a closed glass garage door. Quess he'll never forget to pump the brakes after a brake job....